From Truck Driver to Cowboy Closer: Building Generational Wealth with Clifford Walker

Transcript

[Mattias] (0:02 – 0:06)
Welcome back to the REI Agent. I’m here with Clifford Walker. Clifford, thanks so much for joining us.

[Clifford Walker] (0:07 – 0:09)
What’s going on, brother?

[Mattias] (0:10 – 0:11)
AKA the cowboy closer.

[Clifford Walker] (0:12 – 0:24)
Yes, sir. You know, first off, I just want to say it is an honor and a privilege and just a blessing to be here and spend some time with you today.

[Mattias] (0:25 – 0:43)
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that and we’re honored to have you. You know, if the cowboy closer, if the voice doesn’t tee you guys off, Clifford’s coming out of Texas.

If you see him, he’s got a cowboy hat on. I love it. What part of Texas are you coming out of?

[Clifford Walker] (0:43 – 0:49)
So I’m right outside of Doudna, a town called Wasahatchee.

[Mattias] (0:50 – 0:51)
Wasahatchee, okay, cool.

[Clifford Walker] (0:52 – 1:12)
But you know what’s funny is everything, but it’s so funny like when I go to Oklahoma, but it’s just so funny.

[Mattias] (1:17 – 1:57)
Well, and you know, I guess in my world, I interview a lot more people from Texas than I do from Oklahoma. So that puts the odds in the favor of Texas for me. Hey, we just came back from a real estate convention as well, my wife and I in Austin.

And you know, I don’t know if, how good Austin represents the rest of the state, but I heard Austin’s kind of like Portland in a way where it was a lot of fun. It was a really good vibe. Yeah, damn, I think we call that Texas.

[Clifford Walker] (1:58 – 2:03)
It’s just a melting pot.

[Mattias] (2:03 – 2:25)
No, that’s what it was. We went out and we sang karaoke one night and the place we went to, it was just like, I was, at first it was like a couple of country songs came on, people were singing, and I was about to do Hamilton. I was about to sing Hamilton.

I was like, I don’t know if this is gonna go over well. And then as the night wore on, it’s like everybody was just into whatever song came on, it didn’t matter. And it was every genre, it was everything.

It was fun.

[Clifford Walker] (2:26 – 2:48)
That’s awesome. Don’t let my wife hear you say you were doing karaoke. She’ll be like, I’m going next. Like, that is her thing. She bought those huge or like a huge, a huge massive carrying four microphones. Like she loves some karaoke.

[Mattias] (2:48 – 3:00)
All right, she’s more into it than me. That’s awesome. Maybe I would do it more if I had my own setup because getting out to a karaoke bar with your little kids doesn’t happen very often.

It’s kind of a rare thing.

[Clifford Walker] (3:01 – 3:03)
But it made for a good time, didn’t it?

[Mattias] (3:03 – 3:09)
Yeah.

Anyway, let’s get back into real estate. Clifford, tell us a little bit about your story. How’d you get started in real estate?

[Clifford Walker] (3:36 – 4:24)
And so I’m just driving down, and it was so crazy to podcast at that time. And so that real estate, like wholesaling real estate and stuff. And so I’m just sitting on the edge of my seat, driving and just like, this is it.

And I got back home. I told my wife, I’m like, babe, we’re gonna start wholesaling real estate.

[Mattias] (4:25 – 4:35)
Sure. But from that point, huh? Oh, sorry, I was gonna say, as soon as you said you were a truck driver, I was like, oh, I bet you listened to a ton of audio books and a ton of podcasts.

[Clifford Walker] (4:36 – 5:25)
No, not really. It’s just, I was at a season in my life where it’s kind of personal development like I am now. I was just going to work, just existing.

And I hope that doesn’t sound hard or harsh. Like so many of us just get in this set routine, go to work, we come home, we watch TV. I was just in that more time in my life.

I was working a job that didn’t fulfill me. I was working a job. I knew I was meant for more and called for more.

It was just, yeah, that was just what was paying the bills.

[Mattias] (5:27 – 5:53)
No, it makes sense. And that’s where you can have that aha moment, especially if you’re so inclined to, I don’t know. I don’t know what the right type of person is to be an entrepreneur.

I think anybody can do it. There’s probably some that are a little bit more courageous to start than others. So how long from that first podcast till you quit truck driving or kind of went all in?

[Clifford Walker] (5:55 – 7:29)
It was a crazy just YouTube university going to every con, every seminar that I go into. It was crazy. We’re offering their mentorship and showing you.

And so I said, you know what? I need to do it myself. And then I don’t know if something happened when I invested in myself, but it’s like you take it a little more serious maybe.

I don’t know. But I just took their first month of working with those coaches. I got six deals my first month.

And that’s where the whole. One day my wife was like, well, I guess you’re just the cowboy closer, right? And I was like, you know what?

I am. And yeah, then it was, it just took off from there. So once I got that and then I started doing deals, like after that it was like truck driving and started doing this full time.

[Mattias] (7:30 – 7:37)
You could see that like you could reproduce what you were doing at enough of a rate that you could sustain it.

[Clifford Walker] (7:38 – 8:11)
Exactly. I just had that proof for most people, especially on the investing. You hear it, right?

You hear all the infomercials and doing wholesale deals or it all sounds good until you actually do it yourself. Because then once you do, it was over then.

[Mattias] (8:13 – 8:18)
Yeah. So has that been that you’re still your main focus the this whole time, the wholesaling?

[Clifford Walker] (8:19 – 8:44)
I do a melting pot. So yes, I do some flip to kind of stay current, so to speak. And then I’ll buy whatever rentals that I.

So for me, I just like to cherry pick what comes across the.

[Mattias] (8:51 – 9:44)
Yeah, yeah. So I’ve done similar, I’m not actively wholesaling, I’m a agent primarily. And I haven’t really, I don’t think I’ve ever really picked up something that’s come from somebody wanting to sell their house.

But I’ve got a network of investors, auctions, other wholesalers, et cetera in our area. And then yeah, whenever something comes across my table that I’m like, that’s a sweet property, I wanna hold on to it. I do the burn method as opposed to flipping it.

And then if it’s one that’s just not quite right for what I wanna keep, then I’ll just go ahead and flip it and sell it. But it’s interesting you say that to keep current on the flipping side of things. Now, is that all remote too?

Like you said, six different markets. So are you gonna be flipping stuff, managing stuff remotely?

[Clifford Walker] (9:45 – 10:12)
No, so most, I don’t do any type of those part. Some will be rentals, but they’ll have to be pretty much turnkey, where it’s just for painting carpets, something similar.

[Mattias] (10:20 – 10:41)
Yeah, that would be a whole different animal. I know I, with how busy I am and stuff, I sometimes struggle to keep on contractors to do what they need to do in person or like in my neighborhood. So let alone trying to manage somebody that’s you can’t show up and look what they’re doing.

It would be a challenge. Oh, absolutely.

[Clifford Walker] (10:41 – 11:44)
But even on that stuff for me, I truly believe that real estate is a relationship that you make. Like I try to keep, I get something that’s a flip. I’m not gonna go and actually try to take it to a partner.

I’m gonna say, hey, I got this property over here in Dallas. Like, I got the deal, I can secure materials. Because a lot of the times that stuff is gonna derail you.

And before you know it, you spent so much time over here flipping. Now all of the other stuff and the non-sexy stuff that people don’t post on social media kind of falls to the wayside, but it’s the stuff that moves the needle.

[Mattias] (11:46 – 11:55)
Now, how’s the Dallas market? Is it turning a little bit? Is it a little slower?

Is it more risky to take on a flip at this point?

[Clifford Walker] (11:57 – 12:43)
I would say, I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s more risky. I think you gotta pay closer attention to the data. I’m a numbers guy.

I’m not a trendsetter. Like I don’t go into an area saying, oh, let me do this or let me do that. I wanna see what the average days on market are, what they’re selling for, et cetera.

The safest guesstimate, so to speak, because that’s all it is. That I can make. But yeah, stuff is definitely sitting longer.

And there’s just certain pockets where it’s like, and so it’s just hit or miss. But I think that’s kind of nationwide.

[Mattias] (12:45 – 13:26)
Yeah, for the most part, it is. Yeah, I think there’s some markets that are definitely experiencing more of a slowdown. Florida, Arizona.

And I think maybe Austin is the biggest one in Texas. I don’t know for sure, but I get a pulse from talking to different people. And I think it’s interesting to hear how people’s outlooks or depending on where I’m talking, where they’re coming from.

But I think you’re right. I mean, like, I think you gotta be conservative. You gotta like know your numbers and know what’s, yeah, what’s gonna work.

And yeah, stay true to that and not be overly optimistic that it’s just gonna work out.

[Clifford Walker] (13:27 – 13:58)
Exactly. I will, I’ve seen some horror stories. I’ve seen some people that started with me.

And so I don’t, I don’t know.

[Mattias] (14:00 – 14:01)
Yeah.

[Clifford Walker] (14:01 – 14:06)
I definitely try to look at it.

[Mattias] (14:06 – 14:43)
Yeah. I was just having a conversation about somebody who was wholesaling a lot in the past and kind of transitioned into a different space a little bit. And part of the reason they did so was it was very transactional.

And I think that that’s true for real estate agents as well. Like the sales are just transactional. What’s your kind of big picture plan?

Are you working on, like you keep building up those rental portfolios to kind of like, you know, get yourself, are you wanting to be fully passive income at a certain point? Are you looking to, you know, get out of the day-to-day grind at some point? Or what’s that look like for you?

[Clifford Walker] (14:48 – 15:41)
Right, like live as passively as I can. Also, I go so back and forth with this. I definitely wanna build a business that can, I think that’s a completely different ballgame and conversation.

A lot of entrepreneurs, you just have a full-time job. You just work for yourself, right? But that’s taken as much as I do.

[Mattias] (15:46 – 15:48)
So your question, I honestly don’t know.

[Clifford Walker] (15:50 – 15:51)
Again, I’m still, I don’t have.

[Mattias] (15:56 – 17:27)
Yeah, well, I mean, it’s, I think a lot of agents and wholesalers are in that, you know, like I think if you’re not stopping to think about, you know, retirement, not that, you know, we’re close to that age, but like, what do you want? You know, you can just be caught, you know, moving your lifestyle up to like, you know, the amount of money you’re earning, which probably is more than, you know, when you were truck driving or when you were for your sales or whatever. And then you’re just kind of stuck in that rat race.

And, you know, I think that’s the beauty of the investing space is there’s so many different ways that you can kind of be very passive and invest in something and kind of build it bigger than yourself or bigger than your actions. And another point that you were just talking about was like, you know, building a business that runs without you. You know, this person I was just talking to, and I think this is true for many, most agents, is that they also can’t sell their business.

Like a lot of people will be able to build up something that they can then sell. And that’s their retirement, you know, but that’s usually not the case. You can kind of like, in real estate sales, you can kind of like pass on your book of clients and do some kind of referral thing, but it’s not the same.

And that’s gonna be the case for wholesaling for the most part, I imagine as well. But if you do build up that business, you know, that’s something that somebody could, you know, acquire and keep running without, you know, having to necessarily, yeah, accept a full-time job, like you said.

[Clifford Walker] (17:28 – 19:29)
Exactly. Especially for agents and even other, right, who are actively investing, like we don’t get another check unless we do another wholesale or another fix until then, right? Important to be looked at is this whole, you’re just one property.

I got started just four rentals a year. 10 years, that’ll be a big, ugh. And then I can say, oh, but let me ask you, would you, not at all, right?

And I know we have so many gurus and people on social, a mastermind with a guy that has 2,300 properties, which I love it. That’s amazing. I’m not knocking it.

But when we start breaking that and we have 20, really? Like, I only got 20 rental properties. Like, God, you forsake me, right?

[Mattias] (19:30 – 19:37)
Most people will be thinking, you know, so jealous of you and your situation and make you, you know, super loaded, et cetera, in that position.

[Clifford Walker] (19:38 – 20:49)
Now, let’s take it down another notch. Like, seriously, or should double. If you only want one single rent in the next 10 years alongside doing whatever it is that you’re doing and there’s so many ways that you could do that creatively through sub twos and creative finding.

The first strategy, that’s the strategy I use like you. And so I wanna encourage everybody because you’re not gonna be mad 10 years from now and say, I only have 10 rental properties that’s doubled in value, that’s cash flowing, that’s building generational wealth that I can leave to my kids, right? Like, I think we really need to, that is attainable.

[Mattias] (20:50 – 22:26)
Cause the opposite is like, you’re overwhelmed by I’m never gonna be able to do that many. So like, I’m not gonna do anything. And it’s obviously way worse.

And, you know, I like to do the analogy of like, you know, the best time to buy a house, to buy real estate was, you know, 10 years ago or whatever. The next best time is now. And I think, you know, a lot of people hearing what you said might have that, but interest rates are so high.

The prices are still really high. Like it’s, that’s not a good time to buy real estate. And I think that’s, you know, yes, you don’t, you wanna make sure the numbers work.

You don’t wanna buy a bad deal. You wanna make sure that you can hold onto that long-term, but it is a long-term game. I mean, and, you know, I’ve said this a couple of times, but you know, when rates plummeted, I had a buddy with, you know, 40 rentals that he was able to refinance them all.

He would not have been able to buy 40 rentals when the rates were at, you know, 2.5%. It just wouldn’t have happened. So like there’s advantages and, you know, he’s doing very well with that, that portfolio now. And yeah, so I mean, yeah, keep trying to find that deal.

And if you have to get a little more creative, like, you know, with the BRRRR method or whatever, and maybe looking at things like the, you know, co-living kind of opportunities to make the rent actually work out a little bit better if the payments were just too high with the traditional financing and traditional rental. So there’s a way, you just gotta get a little bit more creative.

[Clifford Walker] (22:26 – 22:33)
Absolutely, I think that’s the key, that people need to start thinking outside of the box.

[Mattias] (22:38 – 23:01)
Yeah, yeah, and that’s, and you know, like you said, like those conferences and those getting into groups of people that have done things more than you is such a great place to be. I mean, the best place to be is where you feel like you’re the least seasoned and dumbest person in the room. That’s when you know you’re in the right room.

Oh, 100%, 100%.

[Clifford Walker] (23:01 – 23:59)
It’s insane to me. We’ve all heard the saying, you are the sum of the, but how many people actually pay? Like it’s crazy to me.

And so holistic perspective and realize like, you know, not from a sense of judgment, like I’m not judging you. It’s just that maybe I can step into the calling until I had to start. It’s just, yeah, it’s insane to me.

[Mattias] (24:02 – 25:06)
100%, yeah. And I mean, I don’t think you necessarily have to go and cut, you know, all your friends and family out of your life right away or anything like that. But like, but yeah, like make an intentional effort to get into those rooms, like you said, like that will bring you up and bring a different perspective about, because it is true.

I mean, like you’ve got, you’re gonna raise that level. If you have questions, you have people to talk to. And yeah, it’s just, it’s powerful.

So, you know, it’s often sounds cliche. Like, you know, I think, you know, when I first started kind of down this path, even reading self-help books just felt like I wanted to, you know, put a different book cover on the top of it and pretend I was reading Harry Potter or something. You know what I mean?

Like, it’s like there’s stigma to that kind of stuff, but like, you know, I think that’s probably come from people who are afraid to grow. And I mean, if you’re not challenging yourself, it’s not a fun life. I mean, I think it’s the most fun to put yourself out there a little bit and get through it and get better.

[Clifford Walker] (25:07 – 26:19)
Yeah, absolutely. And at the end of the day, worst case scenario, like gave me this scenario and he told me the absolute worst that could happen. You go back to driving a lifestyle that you were living.

Like, that’s the worst, right? Like, I’m not gonna end up under a bridge. I might have to sell my house.

I might get a baby, right? If it goes that far, we take it. Right?

You’ll go back to work. In seven years, your credit, at the end of the day, you gave it everything, heck of a story to tell.

[Mattias] (26:22 – 27:35)
Yeah, I mean, you take the most extreme examples of like things going to crap for jumping all in. Like I’ve talked to multiple people that they went through bankruptcy. They usually, you know, the turn when the bubble burst, that’s kind of where they got stuck.

And they went through bankruptcy from that. And they all like attribute it to being a good thing because they had to really learn like private equity and creative finance and all that kind of stuff. And it kind of was like turned into this positive thing instead of like this life ending thing.

And so they didn’t even go back, even though they had probably the worst thing that could happen, right? Go back to their old life. They just figured out how to do it.

And they learned the game in a different way that they are now grateful almost that they went through that process. I mean, nobody’s gonna say, go out there. The best way to the success is to go through bankruptcy so you can learn how to do things without banks.

But, you know, it’s a good perspective to have. And it’s a good perspective to know like going into it that like, it’s not that, yeah, you can make things work even if things get ugly. And there’s a million people that they never got ugly for.

So, you know, not to that level.

[Clifford Walker] (27:36 – 28:14)
Exactly. And so I just find that that fear holds so many nervousness, but change that, change that does work instead of what if it and when I jumped into this, I didn’t have. And like you said, many folks, it doesn’t go to that extreme.

You’re gonna realize that, wow, I jumped in this, I can stand up.

[Mattias] (28:14 – 28:16)
I’m not drowning. Yeah, exactly.

[Clifford Walker] (28:17 – 28:35)
So if it’s on your heart to say, you know what, I do want to start, you know, building generational wealth one single property at a time.

[Mattias] (28:35 – 30:15)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like there’s also different levels of jumping in. Like, I mean, like you can simply, I mean, a good friend of mine, he’s a perfect example.

He was blessed and had great parents and worked really hard through high school. And as soon as he got a job, they’re like, you’re opening up a Roth IRA. And he put in, he maximized that every year, all through college, you know, he got that thing filled up so that when he was out of college, he had enough money he could put into a house and he could buy his first house.

He was living in it. He kept that thing rented. There’s two extra bedrooms.

He rented those out to friends, mostly people he knew through, you know, through grad school, all this stuff. He never had a mortgage payment the whole time. That house has doubled in value.

That house, he’s paid off a good chunk now. He’s now able to hold that house and move into another house that he just bought. But all that to say is like, you know, that’s also investing.

You know, he may not have like necessarily had this big master plan of how he was gonna house hack. He doesn’t even know that it is probably. And how he was gonna build up a rental portfolio doing that.

But you can, and it can be that easy. Like you can just, you know, keep your job for now, you know, buy your first house, rent out some rooms or maybe buy a duplex, quadruplex, whatever. And then as soon as you can buy the next one.

And that’s also investing. So like, it doesn’t have to be this big pie in the sky thing. It can be a lot more and you can make a lot more and you can get, you know, a lot further along.

But that’s also a super valid way of kind of getting started. Nice. I agree.

[Clifford Walker] (30:15 – 31:08)
I get additional funds, so I actually think that’s smart. Me, I quit mine. I know that’s kind of contradicting, but I was also too, I was at a point like, you know, where my wealth was taking a toll.

[Mattias] (31:10 – 31:48)
No, it’s not a one size fits all. I just think that, yeah, like if you don’t own a house yet and that’s one of your goals and you wanna build up a portfolio that way, you know, by house hacking, buying your first house to live in. Yeah, you might wanna consider keeping that job for that first one at least.

And know that if you’re a full-time wholesaler, full-time agent, that it’s gonna take you two years of doing that for taxes to have that tax records to be able to get a mortgage. So just keep that in mind if you’re gonna jump all in. But I mean, at the same time, I think it can be right for people.

I mean, that, yeah, it sounds like it was a perfect move for you.

[Clifford Walker] (31:49 – 32:07)
Yeah, just know that, I think, adjust. Just know that there’s ways around, like there’s home of our getting creative with.

[Mattias] (32:10 – 32:45)
No, totally. Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s great.

And like we’ve been talking about, getting in the room with people that know the stuff that are further ahead than you, listening to podcasts like this, like, you know, reading books, like that’s all gonna help you have that knowledge to make the right decisions for you personally. Yeah, absolutely. Clifford, I was curious if you have any golden nuggets you wanna share for our listeners that could be like fundamental facts or kind of a nuanced niche thing for wholesaling or yeah, whatever comes to mind.

[Clifford Walker] (32:47 – 32:57)
And this might make more sense.

[Mattias] (33:16 – 33:16)
That’s my focus.

[Clifford Walker] (33:17 – 33:46)
And that is that conversation. If I can serve them, any pressure of me needing a grandmaster, cowboy clothes or right conversation and say, hey, how can I serve you? How can I help you?

If we’re a good fit to work together, great.

[Mattias] (33:46 – 33:49)
If not, that’s great.

[Clifford Walker] (33:49 – 34:17)
And you’re gonna sleep very peacefully at night. This is not about that. We need to go outside of state and still run.

[Mattias] (34:22 – 35:22)
It doesn’t have to be one or the other. I agree completely. I think that’s a really good way to build any business if you’re in real estate sales.

You know, I think like just, you know, keeping that, you know, you want those people to be coming back to you that are next transaction. You want them to be singing your praises off the rooftops of your city so that other people come to you as well. I think that’s all like a great mindset to have.

And yeah, it’s definitely not, yeah, you don’t have to be like a used car salesman that you like swindle people into something. It’s, you can definitely run a wholesome business. No offense to the used car salesman.

What about books? Do you have any like fundamental books you think everybody should read or a book that you currently are really enjoying? They should definitely read Psycho Cybernetic.

[Clifford Walker] (35:26 – 35:42)
It’s about just almost kind of like auto-suggestion and the way that you kind of see your thoughts that we say to ourselves, just start the way through.

[Mattias] (35:45 – 36:14)
Giver is a really good book. It’s a small book, but it’s so powerful. I love it.

Yeah, that’s great. I haven’t read the first one, but the Go-Giver is great. Cool, and then if anybody wants to read your book or find out more about you, where can they find you?

Social media, websites?

[Clifford Walker] (36:15 – 36:33)
I’m pretty active on, I post videos on YouTube pretty much daily. I do every month at least showing people how I do the birth strategy.

[Mattias] (36:40 – 36:48)
Nice, that’s awesome. Hey Clifford, it’s been a lot of fun talking to you. I really appreciate your time and the wisdom you’ve just shared with the audience.

[Clifford Walker] (36:49 – 36:52)
No, it was my pleasure brother. I appreciate you having me on.