Power of Resilience, Trials, and Life Lessons That Lead to Triumph with Erik Hatch

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Transcript

[Mattias]
Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Mattias, an agent and investor.

[Erica]
And I’m Erika, a licensed therapist.

[Mattias]
Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing.

[Erica]
Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors.

[Mattias]
Ready to level up?

[Erica]
Let’s do it.

[Mattias]
Welcome back to the REI Agent. Erika, you are out there killing it, getting your personal time in. What is this?

[Erica]
Who are you? Oh, okay. I didn’t know we were starting with this.

Well, yes. You told me to get more friends. Yeah.

And so I did. And I’ve been having a great time.

[Mattias]
You went out with the girlfriends last night?

[Erica]
Yep. So this has been on my bucket list for a while. But we rented an igloo at one of their local breweries.

And it was so cool. It was decorated on the inside with little disco balls and LED lights and really comfortable seating with a small heater in the middle. And then the brewery had already decorated for Christmas.

So it was just perfect. And then we had our own, what do we call it? Waitress who came in.

This is really hard work. Who came in to give us whatever we needed throughout the night. And it was just so fun.

There were like six of us girls that went out and had a great time. But apparently it’s been a lot because Azra told me that I’m not allowed to go out anymore. Because I’m never home anymore.

[Mattias]
Well, because you just came back from a conference too. So you were hanging out with a friend staying at her house for that conference.

[Erica]
Yep. And then you and I had a date hike earlier in the week where we were also gone in the evening.

[Mattias]
Yeah. Let’s talk about that hike. It was kind of eventful.

[Erica]
It was. Well, okay. So first of all, kudos to you.

This was a date that you organized. I did not have anything to do with it. You suggested a hike.

You talked to the babysitter and got that all organized. And I had clients until one. And then as soon as I finished, we left.

And it was like an hour and a half drive to the trailhead. And it’s a nine and a half mile hike. And we were trying to get to the summit by sunset.

[Mattias]
Yeah. Can I just talk really quick about the actually planning it thing?

[Erica]
Oh, okay. Sure.

[Mattias]
I was just going to add in. Like that’s one of those things that has been super beneficial for me is to have this accountability group that I’m a part of. And one of my goals is to have a good relationship with you.

And in doing so is having dates. And I have done terribly this quarter on dates with you. So I set an intention for the week to schedule a date the week prior.

And we found out that the babysitter could be there longer. She’s normally there for a bit helping us. And we’re home with the kids too.

But she could have stayed a little bit later that day. So I was like, let’s figure something out to do. Usually we just go out to a restaurant.

But then I realized that you also were getting off of work at one. So I was like, we could do a hike. And then let’s do the most fun epic hike in our area.

So yeah, we planned it. And we really had to book it. I think that’s what you’re getting at, right?

We got there at what, 2.50? Sunset at 4.57. And the attendant there said that it usually takes her about three hours to hike up the mountain. So we really needed to hike with purpose.

Sorry, do you want to keep going with it?

[Erica]
No, I mean, I wasn’t really going to go any further with it. But we ended up getting to the summit in what, two hours?

[Mattias]
Yeah, less, like an hour and 50 minutes.

[Erica]
Yeah, and we really, I mean, we were moving. I mean, we didn’t really rest much until we got to the top. And this is usually a hike on like a popular day where it is, I mean, you’re just, you have people in front of you, you have people behind you, you’re waiting in line to go through parts of the rock scramble.

And we passed on this day, it was cloudy, it was going to rain, it was a little chilly.

[Mattias]
It’s a Tuesday.

[Erica]
It’s a Tuesday, and it was in the evening. And so we passed maybe like four people on their way back down. We gave up.

And there was one other couple that seemed to be doing the same thing we were doing.

[Mattias]
Yeah, they also seemed younger. And we passed them and didn’t see them for a while. So we’re like, yes, CrossFit.

We have prepared as well for this hike. No, but yeah, we were hiking up and going through these really cool rock scrambles. There’s boulders that you had to like crawl underneath, around, over.

It was just a lot of fun and difficult. I mean, we, again, do feel like we’re in pretty good shape, but it was challenging. So I think it’s a hike that makes it a ton of fun, but it could be really hard for some people to do.

[Erica]
Well, I mean, my knee was popping every time I tried to get up on a rock. And then your abs seized once we got to the summit.

[Mattias]
So we’re feeling like a million bucks, right?

[Erica]
Like, yeah.

[Mattias]
Yeah, we’re closer to 40 than we are 30. And we’re at the top of this mountain. We just beat the young trail attendant or park ranger or lady, whatever, her time by over an hour.

We’re like, yeah, no big deal. We’re in great shape. And I realized that my butt’s hurting from sitting on a rock.

So I try to move a little bit, and I get this crazy ab cramp. I just get paralyzed. Like, it was so bad.

It’s like a foot cramp, but it was just one abdominal muscle. And it’s the only time I feel like I’ve ever been able to see my ab because it was just sticking out. And it was very painful.

[Erica]
I know. I was getting ready to cuddle up next to you and have this really romantic moment on the summit with the sunset. But then there you are, like, seizing on your back.

[Mattias]
Yeah.

[Erica]
And I had to wait till that was over.

[Mattias]
Yeah, so then we got to enjoy the view. And it was cloudy, like you said. And we had some rain off and on.

But it was fairly warm for a day in November, late November, to be on top of a mountain. It was, I think, in the 60s when we were hiking up. So I was in a t-shirt and just drenched in sweat from that activity.

So yeah, we didn’t get a good sunset view. But it was still awesome. And you could see why the Blue Ridge Mountains are called the Blue Ridge Mountains.

You could see the different layers going throughout, multiple views at angles of the mountains. And it was so much fun. And now we’re going to tell you the rest of the story.

And it’s funny because all these things that we talk about should mean that it was a terrible experience. But we very much loved this date. It was a lot of fun.

And so on the way up, I felt my ankle being a little bit weak. But I was like, you know what? It’s good.

We’ll just be careful. So on the way down in the dark, I misstepped on a rock or something and rolled my ankle. We had just started going down.

And it was five and a half or maybe even a little bit more miles to get down the mountain. So I was like, oh, no. It hurt.

But it wasn’t that bad. It’s just setting myself up to roll my ankle worse because it’s weak now. And so I did it again.

And that hurt. And then I did it another time. And then I felt a little bit of a pop.

Every time I rolled it, I could get back on it and start moving again. And so I knew there wasn’t something serious, serious wrong. But I knew it was going to hurt a lot the next day.

And then I rolled it again. And you finally got me a stick that helped.

[Erica]
A chair walking stick.

[Mattias]
Also, the last three plus miles, we’re on a fire road. So there’s a lot less hidden rocks to kind of have to navigate around. But so we were walking down limping and kind of had some false hopes as to when we were actually going to be done.

And so by the time we actually got to the parking lot, we were tired. I was very ready to stop walking with my ankle. At that point.

But we made it.

[Erica]
You were giving, I don’t know if you were giving yourself a pep talk or you were just like processing this. But you were talking about how in situations outside of our control, the one thing that we can control is our attitude. And how did you feel like you did with that?

[Mattias]
I did well. I feel like, you know, at the one time where we maybe took a turn that the way it could have been easier and faster. We had to go uphill.

I got a little bit grumpy. But other than that, I feel like we, I did pretty well for having a sprained ankle and having to hike down a mountain five miles.

[Erica]
Yeah, I thought so too. That time where we took a wrong turn, which was my fault, by the way, we, it was also raining harder than and we were, yeah, we were just ready to get back to the truck.

[Mattias]
It, you know, having done nine plus miles when we haven’t really done it, like we’ve done CrossFit stuff, but we haven’t really, you know, done long distance endurance stuff. We obviously booked it up the mountain. So we had gone pretty hard on that.

And so it was, it was just, it was time to be, to be done. So you, you were like, you know what? Hey, I’ll drive.

When we got to the parking lot, like you, it was my right foot. So like, you know, it just felt like it made sense for you to drive on the way home. And we were leaving and we saw all this like wildlife.

Like, wow, we’re really out here. Like there’s like mice running across the road. There’s a possum.

We saw a raccoon. We saw a dead fox on the road. And then a deer ran out and you reacted quickly, slammed on the brakes, skidded a little bit.

And we hit the deer.

[Erica]
I think the deer hit us. I saw it come up beside me on my arm, my left window. And it was almost like it was running.

There was a moment when it was almost running diagonally kind of beside us, but I knew we were going to intersect at some point.

[Mattias]
Yeah.

[Erica]
And it like hit the tire almost. Like hit the tire in the side of the truck and like rolled away and then ran off.

[Mattias]
Yeah. That’s, I think that’s the only time I’ve been in a vehicle that’s hit a deer, actually.

[Erica]
Oh, really?

[Mattias]
Yeah.

[Erica]
I hit a deer one other time in high school. That was like more head on.

[Mattias]
Yeah, so there was no damage. Thank goodness. So I went out and checked.

And the next morning I saw that we have some deer hair in my sensor, the front, the little round thing. That’s like the only evidence that we actually hit the deer. Thank goodness.

But it was really funny because all of this, mainly the sprained ankle part, meant that we weren’t quite on time for the sitter. And so when we got into service, I was like texting her. I was like, how do I like say, you know, hey, we had a really good time.

Sorry, we’re late. You know, I sprained my ankle to walk five miles on it. And then we hit a deer without making it sound like, oh my gosh.

Um, yeah, so it was, it was so much fun. And I think that like, you know, I think that it’s just one of those things that we, I hadn’t done that hike for 20 plus years. It’s been over 10 years for you.

It’s just one of those things that we should take advantage of more that we, that we don’t. And, uh, it’s just fun to, to do something like that on a whim, uh, more or less, you know, we have an afternoon and an evening. Let’s go.

[Erica]
We were also talking about how it’s helpful that we both enjoy that kind of thing. Um, that it was also, it was rigorous and we had a, like, we were trying to get somewhere by a certain time. So it was pretty physically demanding.

Um, and then, you know, like hiking in the dark, that’s a really unique experience. There, the whole forest is asleep except for the nocturnal animals. And it’s just a really, it’s fun.

I would be kind of freaked out if it was just me. But it’s, it’s a fun experience, but it would be really different if one of us didn’t enjoy physical exercise or wasn’t up for that kind of activity.

[Mattias]
Well, and I made the realization too, that, you know, for most of our relationship, um, I wouldn’t have been in great physical condition, uh, to enjoy that. I probably could have done it, but I probably would have been miserable. So, uh, it, it is kind of this, it felt good to be in a place where, um, not only did I enjoy the hike and have fun with it, but I felt like I was thriving on it until I rolled my ankle until I realized I am still almost 40 or my body reminded me that, you know, yeah, I know we’re not 20s anymore.

Um, but yeah, no, so that was, that was great. And it was fun as a, I feel like even though we hadn’t had any dates yet this quarter, um, and isn’t that weird that we’re tracking them, but like, honestly, like, that’s just how we get them done. Like we’ve had so much more time together this year, probably because of that intentionality that, um, but, but yeah, almost made up for the lack of dates.

Still should do some more.

[Erica]
Well, I, I told you this already on the hike or on the way, but I really appreciate that you planned it. A lot of times that that work is, or I’ve done it and you communicating with the babysitter and planning the whole activity and you had like lunch packed and you had all of our stuff ready. All I had to do was come home and change.

I don’t know if you realize how much that in itself is just such a gift to me. So thank you.

[Mattias]
I’m patting my back. Yes. All right.

We’re going to do Everest next Tuesday. Stay tuned to our podcast briefing after that. Hopefully I don’t roll my ankle.

Anyway, uh, we, that was a long intro, uh, but we have a fantastic guest today. Um, we have Erik hatch. Erik is, uh, you know, former pastor or is in ministry, uh, that got into real estate sales, became a top producing agent himself, uh, then, then formed a top producing team, um, is a coach is an author is a speaker.

Uh, Erik was very motivating to listen to, uh, very fun to hear. Uh, and so if anybody’s interested in, uh, you know, making themselves better at sales, uh, or building a team, uh, this is a really good episode for you also get into some of the personal struggles, um, that he went through, uh, on his journey. Um, so yeah, it was, it was a really good conversation.

Without further ado, we got Erik hatch. Welcome back to the REI agent. We are fortunate enough to have Erik hatch here, Erik.

Thanks so much for joining us out of Fargo, North Dakota.

[Erik Hatch]
Oh, somebody had to be from Fargo and I will choose to be that sacrifice. Yeah.

[Mattias]
You have, uh, done quite well for yourself and, and, uh, and a lot of different areas that we’d like to cover. Um, you are a team lead, you, you do coaching. You’ve, uh, you know, you’re a big speaker.

Uh, tell us a little bit about what got you into real estate and what, uh, your journey to get to this point.

[Erik Hatch]
Yeah. Like almost everyone, real estate wasn’t my first choice. Uh, my first career, my first career right out of college was in the ministry.

And I loved it. Uh, I was at the church that I was baptized and raised at and spent so much time. Uh, but the, what I, what I found was I was in this like really, really tough spot because, uh, I was terrible with money and I made really bad financial decisions while making, uh, $25,000 a year at my church job.

And I just, I, all of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh, I’m so broke. And I went to my buddy and I’m like, bro, I’m so broke. And he goes, hatch, you’re good with people.

You should sell houses. And I’m like, okay. And so sure enough, uh, I got my real estate license and I was dual vocation for five years, uh, and, and did both.

And my first year guys, I don’t mean to brag, but I sold zero houses. It was, uh, it was a rough start. And I’m like, you mean to tell me that, uh, I just spent $1,500 and, uh, I have nothing to show for it.

Like it was just painful. Uh, and then I started to get good at it and I figured out how to, uh, work my sphere and how to really win with open houses and how to pursue people well. And, uh, it started a compound and all of a sudden I started to, uh, like I took care of all that debt.

I had $70,000 in credit card debt. Uh, and the average interest rate today for credit cards is like 28%. So imagine if you’re making $28,000 a year and the interest rate on a $70,000 debt is 28%, how that haunts you.

And so I rid myself of that debt and I’m like, all right, now just back to ministry. And then my wife and I were like, Hey, we should probably try to have kids. And so we tried and have you guys tried before?

It’s super fun. One of my favorite things to do. And it didn’t work.

And so we went to the doctor and then we get put on a sex schedule, which sounds awesome. And it’s not. And then, uh, and then, uh, it didn’t work and it didn’t work.

And so we keep going the reproductive medicine route and a whole bunch of medicine and we used all our insurance and we still weren’t parents. And so now real estate then became this vehicle for me to become a dad. And my $100,000 daughter is at home and it took three miscarriages and about four years of a whole lot of pain and struggle and all these things, uh, to be parents.

My daughter’s 10 years old now. And, uh, sure enough, uh, two years later I snuck one past the goalie and we ended up with two kids. And so it’s just like, it’s this awesome story because everything I do is, uh, I want to serve the world and the best way I serve the world is I serve people at home.

And, uh, so growing something big is honestly, it’s for me because my kids need more of me at home and my wife needs more of me at home. Uh, but the original accelerator into real estate was this. And so, uh, in 2011 I had real estate take a back or a front seat and ministry take a back seat.

And all of a sudden, uh, I, I was really successful in my first year full time. I sold 52 houses and then I did what everybody thinks they’re supposed to do. And that’s start a real estate team.

And I was worried about my sales and I wasn’t busy helping everybody else win. And, uh, and I failed. I got kicked out of my brokerage.

Everything fell flat. My team of 13 when I got kicked out, I’m like this Jerry Maguire moment of like, all right, who’s coming with me? And, uh, two people said yes.

And I’m like, oh, I’m the problem. I’m, I’m the, I’m the cotton headed niggie moments. I’m the dummy.

And, uh, and I recognize that my ministry that I was so passionate about needed to mirror and match my business, right? And my, my desire to serve people and to serve the world was not like I’ll win and hopefully everybody else will pick up the table scraps. It instead was a, a new rhythm, a new cadence, a new culture of like, we’re going to do everything within our power to win together.

And so we, uh, we were in our aligned with all of our actions, all of our efforts. And I’ve been able to do some pretty cool things in the last decade since I had that restart gone on to be a coach and a speaker. I’ve written a couple of books.

I’ve done a couple of TED talks. I get privileged to do a fun podcast like this all the time. And I’m, if I can just move the needle for one person, one degree to maybe be better at sales or better at leadership or better at home, I feel like I’m doing my job.

[Mattias]
Wow. There’s lots of impact there. What one of the questions I had or was thinking about is obviously to build as much as you have, you have to be working a lot and working hard.

I see in the back there.

[Erik Hatch]
Yeah, it says, it says work hard, be kind. But, uh, that’s what I did to do what I do. Uh, let me explain is, uh, I had an agent on my real estate team.

Uh, he, uh, he sold a hundred to 120 homes a year. That’s a ton of houses, right? Yeah.

And new agents would come in and be like, well, I want Tyler to be my mentor. And they would see that Tyler, uh, didn’t do any lead generation. Uh, he went to a lot of coffee shops.

He did a lot of showings. He was just busy. And so they’re like, well, I’m going to do what Tyler does.

But what they didn’t see was what Tyler did. Right. In order to do what Tyler, they were just trying to do what Tyler does.

They were in chapter seven and they missed chapters one through six. So chapters one through six for me from 2008 until 2014, I was, uh, 80 to 110 hours a week in business, relentless. I was selling 150 homes a year myself while building and leading my team.

But the moment my daughter was born, I became no nights, no weekends. I became a nine to fiver. Realistically, as we’re recording this, it’s a Friday.

I’m off most Fridays. Now I’m probably working 30 to 35 hours a week and I’m running multiple businesses and I’m living the life that I want to drink. Like I have guilt for not working extremely hard because it became a part of my identity.

And I thought like the world needs me to work really hard. And now I recognize, and I said before, like my family needs more of me at home. And so I need to spend all my time and energy figuring out how I can have a potent punch because I spent all my time previous investing in building what I have.

And now I’m spending my money so I can get back my time. And so I got to figure out where my time goes. I have to make sure that my dollar per hour is the right output.

Otherwise, I got to say no to it. That makes a lot of sense.

[Erica]
How old are your kids now?

[Erik Hatch]
They’re 10 and eight. And my daughter’s a princess. My son’s an a-hole.

So we have a really nice balance at home.

[Erica]
That seems to come along with the eight-year-old age.

[Erik Hatch]
It seems like you also have one about that age. He’s actually gotten a lot better. I’ve told that same joke for years because you find something that works and you stick with it.

But he’s actually a pretty sweet kid now. He’s in this tender phase where he wants to hang out with me all the time. And so last night we went to a school carnival and then we played ping pong afterwards.

And we’re getting this quality time. And had I been a slave to my business, I couldn’t do this. And so many people say we do things for our family.

Well, we need to do family things for our family. That’s the only thing that matters. I was privileged with infertility for years, which sounds like a weird thing.

But I was privileged with that. And so I recognized I could give my time and my energy. I could have that exceedingly high dedication to the business because my family wasn’t formed yet.

I had my wife and she was understanding of what we were building. Thank goodness she is such a gracious woman. But it was and is.

I’m still 100 hours a week. Maybe that’s the best way to say it. I’m still 100 hours a week, but I’m like 30 to 35 in my business.

And I’m like 65 to 70 with my family.

[Erica]
Wow. A lot of the clients that I work with struggle with infertility, have gone through miscarriages, postpartum, that kind of thing. That tends to be the clientele that come through in such a strainful time.

[Erik Hatch]
It is the quiet cancer that people have. What’s so strange is we’re supposed to, in the first 12 weeks of being pregnant, which is when you’re most likely to miscarry, that’s when you’re not supposed to tell anyone. Like, hey, the first trimester things might just be quiet.

It is such an anti-everything because that’s when you need support the most. That’s when you need people to be there for you is when things are the most fragile. But yet we’re taught that you’re supposed to stay super quiet and tight-lipped on that.

It’s super, super contrarian.

[Erica]
Yeah. Okay. I have two questions.

One, as a partner to someone who is struggling with her side of infertility, how comfortable were you navigating just how to talk about it? What questions to ask, how to support her in that process? I know you were going through it too.

I’m just curious what that was like for you guys.

[Erik Hatch]
I do a lot of writing and I’m working on a writing right now about the pain of the supporter. That all the attention goes to my wife, Emily, as it should. But then I’m left as the supporter being like, what in the world is going on?

So there’s a whole lot of things. And Erika, I know you certainly understand that at a really high level of the person who sits bedside is in the same kind of pain as the person who sits in the bed. Mm-hmm.

For my wife, I’m a fixer. I’m a doer. And so when I see something, I want to fix it.

And that’s why I got to work in real estate. That’s why I worked so hard is because I could fix the financial problem. That was an easy fix for me.

But I didn’t know how to fix the emotional pain that my wife was through. And so I was just present, meaning when I wasn’t working, I was by my wife’s side. And when she was ready to talk about it, I think that one of the mistakes that so many people make, Erika, is that they sit silent expecting that that’s going to do it.

Here’s the best example I can give. When I was 21 years old, my mom passed away. And I was in college.

My dad was never in my life. So I was orphaned. And five months later, it was Thanksgiving.

And so half my life ago, I remember it like it was yesterday. I’m like, everybody’s forgotten about me. Nobody even remembers that my mom died.

I’m just this forgotten soul. And then I got invited to five Thanksgivings. And it was like, oh, they didn’t forget.

But I learned really early on that, yes, you have to invite people to things. But I was intentional. And I even put on my calendar now, if someone is struggling, I have a friend going through a really tough divorce right now.

And so I text her every four days. And it’s just, hey, friend check, how’s your heart today? And it’s super simple.

And I will schedule it. And for me, I can put it on my schedule so I don’t forget. But it is so ingrained into my DNA now that I want to be this caretaker after the aftershock is done, when the world seems like it’s back to normal.

I’ll try to show up in that. And I did that with my wife when she was battling that infertility as well. I tried to show up consistently and actually ask about it.

Hey, how you doing with all this right now? Instead of acting like everything is back to normal, because nothing was normal for us.

[Erica]
Yeah. And who did that for you?

[Erik Hatch]
Nobody. That’s the thing, is I got invited to five Thanksgivings, which all of a sudden reminded me like, oh, I wasn’t forgotten about. They knew that I didn’t have family to go and spend time with.

And so people showed me with their actions. But I think so many people are afraid to use their words. So many people are afraid to actually bring it up because we’re afraid to, uh, all of a sudden be dealt with all those emotions because we have to wear that as well.

And I’m not, I dealt with really heavy, really young. And so dealing with those emotions later on, uh, was not scary for me. So I, I choose, I, uh, I’m flirting with a third book title.

Please, if you’re listening to this, don’t go like buy the domain and steal the book title and everything else. But, uh, I’m flirting with a book title called leaders go first. And, uh, the idea behind it, and I’ve given a bunch of talks on this is that leaders have to do what nobody else is doing.

They have to be the first ones to go, to take the risks, to ask the questions, to be the most vulnerable and to lean in with that. And it’s led me to a ton of success in real estate and a ton of success in life. But almost all of our success is bred from the pain and the tragedy that we went through in the first place.

And so, because I was gifted with infertility, because I was gifted with losing my mom at an early age, it’s given me a unique perspective that I think is meant to serve and help other people.

[Erica]
Yeah, that’s great. I know it seems like we, just as people feel this pressure to say the right thing or the perfect thing. And so if we don’t know what that is during really hard situations like that, we just don’t say anything.

When really, I think what, what most of us would crave going through a really impossible situation like that is just for people to be really normal and, and check in and be present and, um, just be around us.

[Erik Hatch]
That word of presence is, is like 78% of the battle. And then I think that you can have the confidence to just say like, Hey, we haven’t talked for a while about, uh, what’s going on. How you doing?

And you don’t have to ask anything else. If they want to talk, they’ll talk. If they don’t want to talk, they’ll shut down.

And like just to be seen, Ooh, that’s powerful. And that’s, uh, here’s a transition. Uh, I think that one of the biggest pains that happen in real estate teams is that, uh, somebody feels invisible.

And the invisibility happens on the extremes. The invisibility happens when someone stops showing up to the office, when they stop attending the regular lead generation and role play times and everything else. And so that person isn’t seen.

They’re either struggling personally or professionally, but if you don’t go chasing them, if you don’t pursue them, they’re 99% of the time going to leave the team. They’re going to be done. Now, inversely, what happens is on most real estate teams.

What I see is, uh, there’s failure to give your attention to your big pumpkins. The, the, the phrase big pumpkins comes from a book called the pumpkin plan by Mike Michaelowitz. He’s known best for writing profit first, but he’s written a bunch of entrepreneurial books that are awesome.

And in the pumpkin plan, he studied these pumpkin farmers to figure out how are some of these growing these thousand pound blue ribbon winning pumpkins that everybody marvels at. That’s the value of a really great pumpkin farmers. If they can have these hundred or thousand pound pumpkins, or you can have that agent that sells a hundred houses and like all these great things.

And the issue is, is on step six of the seven part pumpkin plan is that you should give all your attention to your big pumpkins. Like if you want to grow big pumpkins and have them grow even bigger, you give all your attention to your big pumpkins. But the failure that most real estate teams make is that they give all their attention to the new agents and to the struggling.

And what happens is let’s say you’re an agent on my team and you’re three years in and you’re now selling 30 homes a year. Well, guess what? My purview as the leader and the business owner is like, Oh, you got to figure it out.

You don’t necessarily need me anymore. And that’s why people become flight risks because they become invisible. Like they’re so valuable that you think I don’t have much more to give because they kind of got to figure it out.

When realistically, people don’t leave because of splits. Most of the time they leave because they’re out of runway and they’re disconnected. And so a leader’s job should be to jump into those things.

A leader’s job should be to figure out who on my team is invisible. That’s the question I ask myself almost every single day is who’s invisible right now and where can I give my time and my attention to that? Because people should feel pursued and wanted.

And if they don’t, they’re not going to stay.

[Mattias]
Yeah, that’s really good. I’m curious if your team structure, it doesn’t sound like you have the designations as far as like a buyer’s agents, a listing specialist, that kind of stuff. Do you structure things that way or do you tend to let people kind of just build their own business and do both sides to do whatever they kind of naturally fall into?

[Erik Hatch]
Yeah, a solid question. So for 12 years now, I’ve been building a real estate team and I’m on my fourth iteration of it right now. So each iteration has looked different.

When we first started out, we had buyer agents and we had listing agents. And then I have a philosophy in my world and this exists in my house, it exists in my business, but that is that everything is earned and nothing is given. And so if somebody wants to earn the right to work listings, if somebody wants to earn the right to get a referral from me, if somebody wants to earn the right to have 100% commission split on something, we’re always going to have a roadmap for that, but it’s not given, it’s earned.

And so it becomes nothing is equal, but everything is fair. You know what I mean? And so that is the foundation in which I’ve built all this.

So today, our realtors, when they come in, we don’t give them like any company appointments. They have to earn the right to get that. And so they’re working in their database and our database, right?

We don’t want them to break anything that’s fresh and hot and we’re going to train them up to be warriors. Now, when they develop the competency and if they pick up a listing opportunity early on, it’s like, no, you got to refer that to someone else and your co-pilot. Listings are, I think, so much more intricate and specific than the buy side.

And so we make sure that people sharpen their swords on the buy side and then they’ll earn the right to be on the listing side. But most of our agents who’ve been with us for 12 plus months have earned the right to do both. Sure.

[Mattias]
Okay. That makes sense. And do you have, it sounds like you do a lot of training with people.

I would imagine there’s a lot of over, like, this is how we treat buyers in this situation. This is our kind of standard. This is kind of how we can market ourselves as a team that we have consistency, like we might have different personalities, different styles of doing business maybe.

But for example, every time you make an offer on a house, you’re going to get a CMA on that house and make sure that, is there bare minimums that you kind of have for standards for your agents to do their business with?

[Erik Hatch]
Yeah. A hundred percent. Having training and regular engagement daily is there.

Full transparency is I’m like 30 minutes a week on my real estate team. My team will sell hundreds of houses this year. I have a president that runs the day to day, but I live mostly in my coaching world and building real brokerage, the broker that I’m a part of.

And so that’s where I spend almost all my time now. And I literally have the business that makes money that I’m not working in anymore. And that for so many people is like this imaginary dragon that they never thought to be possible.

And I’ll tell you, it’s not near the fantastic bite I expected it to be. I thought that it would be like everybody throws me on their shoulders and reveres and like, Hey, this is great. But instead, some of the energy is like, this guy’s a deadbeat dad.

He shows up every once in a while and is like, Hey, my name’s on the door. I don’t ever try to say that, but I’m so disconnected from the regular heartbeat. But I want to answer your question about what training looks like and how that actually wins.

The best example I can give, and we talked about this before we recorded, is I’ve lost 107 pounds in the last two years. And in fact, I’ve lost about 45 pounds in the last two and a half months. And so I am now finally the piece of meat I once dreamt myself of being.

And so that’s super fun. But in all seriousness, there’s like two different models that people take. And by the way, you lose almost all your weight in the kitchen, not in the gym.

But going to the gym is super important to me. And I think that most people, when they go to the gym, they want to go to Anytime Fitness. And Anytime Fitness is a whole bunch of machines.

And it’s a low cost. And you can go there and say, Listen, I’m going to get a great workout. But if you’re anything like me, you’re going to hop on the elliptical for 15 minutes.

Then you’re going to do some bicep curls. And you’re going to be like, looks like Big Daddy Hatch just got after it again. Now, the opposite side of that is Orange Theory.

And Orange Theory is or CrossFit or I mean, we can name any of those things where you go and they literally tell you this is exactly what you’re going to do. This is exactly how you’re going to do it. These are the reps.

This is the speed. This is the intensity. And you don’t have to think about what you do.

Somebody else just tells you what to do. And all of a sudden, I will tell you that the results 99 times out of 100 at Orange Theory will be better than someone at Anytime Fitness. Unless the person that goes to Anytime Fitness has the habits, the skills, the plan, and they know that they’re going to get there.

So therein lies the issue with realtors in general is that they sign up as independent contractors wanting the freedom and flexibility that this business provides. And it’s that freedom and flexibility that leads them to Anytime Fitness. And they don’t know how to get a fantastic workout.

They don’t know how to run a really great business. I fortunately had another job when I jumped in. My first year, I sold zero houses because I was at Anytime Fitness.

And when I started to get really good is when I went to CrossFit and when I went to Orange Theory, when I started to join a real estate team and I figured out what do I have to do every day to get better. And so the people that are winning, especially in this tougher market that we find ourselves in right now, are following a blueprint and a cadence and a plan instead of just trying to figure it out themselves. Those that try to figure it out themselves are on their way out of this business.

[Mattias]
That was a really good analogy.

[Erica]
I was just thinking that too. I’ve never really heard that talked about that way, but man, that makes a lot of sense. I was trying to figure out, okay, this is a great analogy.

And also, are you an Orange Theory enthusiast or CrossFit or what do you do?

[Erik Hatch]
I don’t have a bad back, so I’m not a CrossFit enthusiast. I go four days a week to a place in town here. I live, again, in Fargo, North Dakota.

There’s a hot sculpt class that I go to. So first of all, it’s 100 to 103 degrees in the room. And then for an hour, you’re doing burpees and squats and jumping jacks and lunges and pushups and bicep curls and tricep dips and all the things.

And so I’ll burn between 900 and 1,200 calories in that hour. And I do that four days a week. And it’s a group fitness class.

And I literally show up. I don’t have to think about what I’m going to do, and somebody tells me what I’m going to do. Now, I’m an entrepreneur.

I’m a business owner. I’m a guy that’s a 99D on the disc profile. I want things my way, and I want to be the one in charge.

But I’m not a fitness expert. And so I am a-okay going to a class where they tell me what to do. It’s almost nice because I don’t have to think.

I don’t have to be in charge. I can just show up, and the results have been staggering.

[Mattias]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani Absolutely. So we both did something equivalent to Orange Theory for a while. And then COVID happened, so we stopped.

And then when I-we got back, when we were kind of able to go back into doing things, I looked up CrossFit because I-my body responds better to heavy weights. And so then I started that. Then Erika started that a year or two later.

So we are in that world. No bad backs. Well, sometimes I have back pain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Dr. Justin Marchegiani But-but no, I agree completely. And I think-I think another really good analogy that-or something you can play on that analogy with is-is the-the tribe feeling. So I think that if you develop a culture in your team where you are really going through the-the paces together, I think there’s something about, you know, enduring a really- they’re in an exercise class that really bonds you with the people that you’re with. So that’s probably also true.

Like, I know some of my co-workers, some people that I have gone through, they’ve seen me go through really hard transactions, especially when I’ve, you know, hadn’t been busy yet. I started-I got busy. Then, you know, when you have a bunch of deals going, you’re bound to have more problems.

It’s just, you know, the law of numbers. And, you know, that-that’s a bonding thing to-to get through difficult things, to-to work hard together. So that’s another really good analogy for a class versus, yeah, just, you know, doing arms day every day on your own.

[Erik Hatch]
It-it is why I think the future of real estate belongs to teams. The-the-the agent who sells 25 homes a year to their sphere will always have a place, and they don’t necessarily need to be on a real estate team, unless they have aspirations to grow beyond that, and they need the leverage and the support that’s there. But the person who sells 25 homes a year is the person who can go to Anytime Fitness.

And they know their workout routine that’s going to get them the results that they want. The world is more expensive now. Leads are harder to convert.

Business plans-there’s-we are on information overload, where everybody thinks they know the right way to do things. And this industry has an 87% failure rate because of ego. Period.

Hard stoppers. People think my way is the best way. But the way people will be winning in this next chapter and in this current chapter is when they literally follow a plan and a blueprint.

And those that are best designed to have a plan and a blueprint are real estate teams. Now, I also know that most real estate teams are terrible with profit, and they’re terrible with their infrastructure. And so I want to be really cautious to say that most people shouldn’t have real estate teams.

And those that do need to love leadership and success of others more than they love their own time and money. Okay. Yeah.

One shot’s fired.

[Erica]
Yeah. I have a question about the weight loss you were talking about. Yeah, yeah.

I’m curious, as you were losing the weight and as you have been, what have you noticed about just your sleep, your energy, motivation, how you see yourself, how you feel about what you’re doing during your day? I’m just kind of curious what changes you’ve noticed.

[Erik Hatch]
Yeah. So I hit my highest weight point about two years ago, almost to the day, and I was 346 pounds. I’m built like a lineman even today, right?

I’m six foot two. I’m thick with two Cs. And so I’m just not ever meant to be like bone skinny.

For me, I’m 14 pounds away from my goal weight, and that’s 225. And 225 is going to look really, really good on me. So over the course of the last two years, I’ve done fasting 18 hours a day.

And so I’ve only eaten between noon and six daily. And for me, it’s just been a math problem, right? They say that for every pound that you are, you multiply that by 100, and that’s how many calories that you can have in a day.

Sorry, you multiply it by 10. So if you’re 200 pounds, you can have 2,000 calories in a day and maintain your weight. If you’re 300 pounds, you can have 3,000 calories a day.

So for me, I had to have a caloric deficit, because a pound weighs about 3,500 calories. And so I had to have a caloric deficit from my workouts and from not eating as much. And so it was just simple math right away, and that’s how I got most of this off.

And what had happened was I was emotionally and spiritually and physically and mentally as fat as I was on my body. Those things on my insides were reflected by my outside. And I can point to a whole bunch of deferred maintenance that happened in my life.

It wasn’t like one tragedy. Sometimes for people, it’s like one tragedy that messes up your mind. For me, this was a compounding of.

I had unaddressed daddy issues from 40 years ago that had compiled, and I had all these things in my business that I wasn’t paying attention to and all these things in my personal life. And so everything about me felt fat. Everything.

And for me, when I start working on the physical, everything caught up to it. Because I’m the guy where I’ll eat a salad, and then I’ll look in the mirror to see if I lost a chin or if I have an ab that developed. I want immediate results, and I want it really quickly.

And sometimes, especially if you’re morbidly obese like I was, you can fast for 18 hours, and you’ll lose three pounds. Hold up now. Where did this come from?

And so I immediately won with one keyword. This is one of my favorite words, and that’s progression. I started to progress just a little bit.

And I think that progression is probably the most addicting thing that we have in our world. If you feel like, hey, this is actually working, you start to do more of it. And that progress developed a swagger in my step.

It developed a confidence in my voice and my energy. And that trickled down to everything else. My mental and my spiritual and my emotional, those all got better because I was winning physically.

And I believed that I could progress. I believed that I could win. Because if I could win on my outsides, I knew I could start winning on my insides.

Now, Erika, I’m still not sleeping well. Sleep has always been an issue for me. And because I’m hydrating so much, I wake up to pee like three times a night when my mind starts going.

And so I don’t get back to bed. And so I’d love to tell you I’m sleeping really well, but I’m not. And instead, I will tell you that I have so much energy and confidence.

I’m winning in my coaching business like I haven’t in five years. I’m experiencing such great clarity on who I’m designed to be in life. And I am checking all the boxes.

My kids said to me the other day, they’re like, Dad, you’re going to the gym a lot. And I hadn’t even noticed because I’m now doing things that I wasn’t doing previously because this is now something that I’m loving to do instead of like, ugh, I have to do. We kick tires when we have to do lead generation.

We kick tires when we have to go to the gym. But when we start setting appointments, and we start selling houses, and we start losing weight, and we start developing muscles, all of a sudden, it’s like, maybe I want to do more of that. And so it all starts with I had to figure out how to win the day.

And the win in the day was I had to know what my plan was, and I had to feel accomplished. And once I accomplished the day, I started to get a little more movement and momentum for the progression that I wanted in my life.

[Erica]
Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean, it sounds like it happened across the board, kind of like you were saying. It’s just more of this emergence of all the systems that feel good and that work really well.

It also reminds me, some people, when they give up alcohol, they talk about it in a very similar way. Like, once I get a little bit further away from it, I recognize how much more freedom and progression I’m feeling in life in general, too.

[Erik Hatch]
Yeah, ain’t that the truth?

[Mattias]
I’ve got to say, too, that I think that for me, and if people don’t understand why I feel addicted to the gym, it’s really more about, I mean, it helps my body feel good, too, sort of. I mean, I’m sore a lot, but it’s really my brain. I mean, it is such – I sprained my ankle.

We went on this really fun hike.

[Erik Hatch]
Hey, by the way, why is it that at our ages, spraining your ankle takes seven years to recover? It’s fun, I like it.

[Erica]
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know.

[Mattias]
Well, and so I sprained my ankle on Tuesday, and I haven’t gone to the gym since, and I’m feeling it. I’m like, I’m more agitated. I need to get back in there, so maybe I’ll just go in there and do some bench press and some curls, do the anytime fitness workout.

[Erik Hatch]
But that’s the thing, is we can let one thing derail us, and you had said you guys were gym rats and orange theory fitness goers until COVID, and of course, that shut things down on that opportunity. But what we didn’t do was pivot, because – and I’m assumptive here, so please correct me if I’m wrong – but those that are completely dedicated to the addiction of feeling good would have immediately bought a NordicTrack for at home, or do they even make those anymore? I don’t know.

But they would immediately have ordered the P90X DVDs from the mid-2000s. They would have done all the things to say, I’m going to continue on this journey. But those that are dedicated to their real estate businesses say, I’m going to lead generate every day from 9 to 11.

And if they, for some reason, have an appointment or they can’t do it, they still do the lead generation later in the day. But most of us, we sprain our ankle, we get a schedule showing – or a showing schedule, excuse me – we have an outside thing that we can’t control like COVID that shows up, and so it immediately derails us. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah. Some is always better than none.

[Mattias]
Yeah. Now, the part that was hard with COVID was the community aspect of the classes.

[Erik Hatch]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani That’s why Peloton took off.

[Mattias]
Dave Korsunsky Right. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Right?

[Erik Hatch]
Peloton all of a sudden was like online community. That’s when we actually saw like, oh, you can actually cheer people on and you don’t see their face or you don’t know who they are. And it sucks compared to being in that class.

Dave Korsunsky Yeah. Dr. Justin Marchegiani But some is better than none.

[Mattias]
Dave Korsunsky Yeah, and I did those guided. They had it free for a while so you could go out and do like a guided run with them in your ear. That – it definitely was better than just going out and running.

So, totally. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah.

[Erica]
We kind of built a home gym during that time. We also had an infant that year also. Dr. Justin Marchegiani So that was a lot of things about that year.

[Erik Hatch]
Dave Korsunsky It’s never easy.

[Erica]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mattias]
Dave Korsunsky Yeah. Well, you know, I’m curious if you have a fundamental book that you ask everybody to read that joins your team or something that comes to mind that you currently really enjoy. You mentioned a book earlier.

What comes to mind when I ask you that question?

[Erik Hatch]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani So, Shameless Self-Promotion, I’ve written a couple of books. I wrote a leadership book in 2019 called Play for the Person Next to You. And then in 2023, I with my partner, Robbie Trefethrin, we wrote a book called The Perfect Real Estate Agent Blueprint.

It’s literally do this exact plan. This is my orange theory. This is my CrossFit design for a real estate business.

And so follow this plan and you’ll get immeasurable success. And so for somebody looking to follow that plan, this book isn’t like the first book you should read if you just got your real estate license. This is when you have a little bit of momentum and you think, I’m supposed to go start a big team because most people shouldn’t start a big team.

And this is actually a blueprint on how you can build a micro team instead of a mega team. And you’ll get back your time. You’ll get back your money.

And you’ll save yourself on all the stress that so many of us endure irresponsibly. So if anybody’s interested in that, I want to give it away for free. Is that cool?

Can I give it away for free?

[Mattias]
Yeah.

[Erik Hatch]
You just got to follow me on Instagram at Real Erik Hatch. That’s Erik with a K. And then DM me one word.

That word is blueprint. Just DM me one word blueprint. And I have some AI that’ll take over.

And you just got to pay shipping and handling. But I’ll give you the book for free. It’s an awesome book.

[Erica]
Awesome.

[Erik Hatch]
Here’s what I recommend, though, for any realtor that’s starting out. And this is kind of like an old school book at this point. But Michael Mayer wrote a book called The Seven Levels of Communication.

And it’s about building a business based on relationships and connections. And you don’t buy your way to the top. You love and serve your way to the top.

And so The Seven Levels of Communication was fundamental for me. And I’ve gone and I’ve riffed and created a whole bunch of content around that same kind of structure of how to serve your past clients, how to serve your sphere of influence, and how to love on them. Do you mind if I give your listeners just my favorite thing to do with that?

Please. Now, I think that the mistake that so many people make is you transactionalize your sphere. You transactionalize your past clients.

And you automate your past clients. As an example, I’m a former Keller Williams agent, and they have preached a 33-touch campaign. But that 33-touch campaign is now being done mostly by AI.

And so people have this confidence of them being like, listen, I’m touching on my sphere and my database 33 times a year, so that’s great. But if somebody transacts with you and you get a $10,000 or $20,000 commission, and you repay them by putting them on an automated plan where they receive info alerts and they don’t actually hear from you voice-to-voice or face-to-face, like you have unintentionally transactionalized that relationship. The same is to be true of if you’re new in real estate and you call up someone and you say like, hey, how are things with your wife and kids?

And they’re like, well, things are great. That’s awesome. By the way, who do you know that’s looking to buy, sell, or invest in real estate?

And so it’s a mistake that so many people make. And so people are oftentimes frozen on chasing after their database. Now, again, I told you I worked at Keller Williams and I used MREA, the Millionaire Real Estate Agent book, as a fundamental way for me to grow.

And there is one stat in there that stands out to me above all other things, and that is the conversion rate of Mets versus Have Not Mets. A Have Not Met has a 1 in 50 chance to convert. That’s 2%.

That’s a pay-per-click lead or a neighborhood farm or anything else. And by the way, did you know that the average conversion rate of a pay-per-click lead is 630 days? Most people aren’t built for that.

And so chasing after something that’s a 2% conversion rate that’s going to take 630 days felt irresponsible to me. And so you look at the other side of it, and that’s what Mets are. And in MREA, they say that you should have a 2 in 12 conversion rate on your Mets.

And I was like, why don’t you just break that fraction down into 1 in 6? And the reason why is because for every 12 people in your database, one should refer you and one should do business with you annually. It’s like, okay, well, that makes sense then.

And so that’s a 16.67% chance. So let’s take that 16.67% chance, that 1 in 6 or 2 in 12, and let’s actually put a plan behind that because you got to know who to talk to, and then you got to know what to say. And the foundation of those things are relationships.

It’s not transactions. And so when you call up, if you’re taking notes, this would be the thing to take notes on. You’re going to use the acronym CAIG to become a CAIG fighter, but it’s C-A-I-G, okay?

You want to know what to say if you haven’t talked to somebody for a while. You want to know what to say if you just did a deal with someone or to a realtor you’re trying to attract or anything else. It starts with a C, and that’s compliment.

Compliments are specific, and social media actually tells us exactly the things we should be complimenting on. It’s shocking. As an example, let’s say your kid hit their first home run in baseball.

Well, I could just post on the post that you put on Facebook, and I could say, awesome way to go. Or I could send you a baseball and a pen and say, hey, could you have your son autograph this? It looks like they’re going to be a future major league baseball player.

What’s going to stand out? What’s going to be memorable? Or I could, dare I say, pick up the phone and call you and say, Erika, you just watched your son hit a home run.

What was that like for you as a mom? Specific compliment, you’re acknowledging what’s going on, and you’re cheering them on. This world needs more people to cheer, okay?

So C is compliment. I’m going to go back to the A last because it’s my favorite one. The I is to invite.

So people in your database, you need to invite them. You can invite them into an event. But by the way, if you’re inviting people to your client event and you just mass blast them, that’s transactionalizing them.

I love leading with a voice memo or a quick video on my phone. So I’d hold it up and I’d say, Mattias, listen, we got our event coming up next week. We’re giving away a bunch of pies, but you haven’t signed up yet.

Bro, are you going to sign up? And that’s it. I’m going to call you by name.

89% of all of our communication is nonverbal. And so if you’re just relying on text or email, you’re crap in the bed. You’re missing out on almost everything that you need to be conveying.

The energy and the inflection and the whites of your eyes and this passion behind what you say is so much better than the actual words that you say. And so you invite someone, or you invite them to give their opinion, or you invite them into a relationship with somebody else. But you can just invite people all the time.

The G is gratitude. You want to know how to get yourself unstuck. You think of that client that you sold a house to three years ago and you’ve dropped the ball.

You’ve just literally fallen short of what you’re supposed to do. What you do is you call them up and you say, Erika, first of all, I’m sorry. I have been bad at staying in touch.

But I was going through this gratitude exercise today of people that I’m just really thankful for. And I know that you and Mattias took a chance on me three years ago and you trusted me with your process. And I am so grateful for that.

You have no idea what that meant to my family, but thank you. Does she hate me anymore? No or no.

Because I owned my shortcoming, but then I just thanked her. Thanked her. But that leads to the A.

The A is the most powerful thing in being a cage fighter. The A is ask. The call goes like this.

Erika, listen, I’m so grateful for you putting your trust in me three years ago, but I know that I’m not always a 10 out of 10. Erika, what’s one or two things I could do better or different? Or what’s one or two things I could have done better or different in our transaction and experience together?

Because I’m committed to getting better and I really need your help. Now, when you ask for somebody’s help and you admit you’re not a 10 out of 10, they become invested in getting you there. Their fingerprints are now on you and they care about your success.

My godson is 18 years old. He just got his real estate license. And I’m like, all right, bro, you making your call?

He’s like, yeah, I can call people that I can call have not met all I want, but I’m afraid to call Mets because he’s like, I’m 18. I don’t know Jack about Jack. And I’m like, yeah, you don’t.

So here’s what you do is you call up and you say, hey, Mattias, it’s Otis. Listen, I just got my real estate license and I have such a mad respect for you as a businessman and as a father. I’m wondering if you can give me some advice.

What do you think I need to be doing in my first six months of real estate in order to be really successful? Like instead of acting like insecurity flexes. And if Otis, that 18 year old would show up and say like, hey, I got all this figured out.

Why don’t you work with me for real estate? Like nobody’s going to trust that 18 year old kid. But instead of him shows up and he says, hey, can you help me?

Oh my gosh, we’re invested in wanting to get him to be successful because he trusts me enough to ask. And so the most powerful thing you can do for your database is to eat humble pie and to ask them for help. And to, and to literally use it as a business strategy, because what you do is I make a note and I say, Mattias told me that I need to call 20 people a day.

And then what I’m going to do is I’m going to call 20 people a day. And then a week I’m going to call you back and we’ll say, hey, Mattias, I took your advice. I did this.

Now, how great does Mattias feel when I, when I took his advice? Like he feels like, oh my gosh, I’m the man, right? So if you have somebody to refer or if you have repeat and referral business for yourself, guess who you’re coming to?

It’s Big Daddy Hatch once again. By the way, I should never refer to myself as Big Daddy Hatch. I just got to stop doing that.

But I get so pumped up. So, so that cage acronym is like the greatest tool that can get people unstuck and you should be making so many more calls. You should be sending so many more videos and they need to be specific to the cage fighting method.

And with that, I think you and I will win in these next chapters.

[Mattias]
I love it. That’s, that was really good. I think the, the social media element of people that just, yeah, have that arrogance that are, you know, trying to flaunt their success to me, and maybe this is because I’m in the business, but it doesn’t rub me the right way.

I don’t feel like it’s, it’s what people want. And so that, that plays perfectly into it. I agree with you completely on that.

That’s, that’s really good. Really good tip. It takes a lot of confidence to show that you don’t have a lot of confidence.

Yeah. To have that vulnerability.

[Erik Hatch]
I love it. Well, I’m, I’m going to bet on that person every day.

[Mattias]
So, so you already, you already said the best place to reach out to you is Instagram.

[Erik Hatch]
The Instagram is where the kids are at nowadays. So I’m, I’m hip and young and fresh and with it. So a real Erik Hatch.

It’s Erik with a K. I’ll help however I can. I give, obviously I’m a coach in this industry and I have stuff that people can pay for, but I got like 95% of my stuff.

That’s all free. And so please just come gobble up some free stuff and hopefully I can help move the needle for you. Yeah.

[Erica]
Oh, awesome. Well, thank you, Erik. It’s been great having you on the show.

I really appreciate your time. It’s an honor. Thanks gang.

Thanks for listening to the REI agent.

[Mattias]
If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week.

[Erica]
Visit reiagent.com for more content.

[Mattias]
Until next time, keep building the life you want.

[Erica]
All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.