Key Takeaways
- Building authentic relationships and providing value can open doors to unexpected opportunities, even in luxury markets.
- Letting go of difficult clients and embracing abundance leads to personal and professional growth.
- Success in any niche requires preparation, strategy, and a commitment to continuous learning.
The REI Agent with Anna Oliver
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Journey of Transformation
In this episode of The REI Agent Podcast, host Mattias invited Anna Oliver, a top-producing luxury real estate agent from Toronto, to share her incredible journey.
From growing up on a Canadian military base to becoming a powerhouse in the real estate world, Anna’s story is one of resilience, strategic thinking, and an unwavering commitment to growth.
Anna’s career trajectory defied expectations. “I wanted to be a pilot, but life had other plans,” she shared with humor and humility.
After pivoting from her dream of flying jets due to motion sickness and poor direction sense, Anna found herself working with the Canadian infantry in Bosnia. This experience instilled in her a profound appreciation for freedom and opportunity, setting the foundation for her success in real estate.
The Art of Building Success from Scratch
When Anna relocated to Toronto in 2008, she faced an uphill battle. “I came to a city where I knew no one. It was a recession, and I had to start over completely,” she recalled.
However, with her characteristic tenacity, Anna immersed herself in the local market. She treated real estate like a game, previewing homes, studying stats, and getting to know every corner of her new city.
Her grassroots efforts extended to the community, leveraging connections in unexpected places. “The dog park was my networking hub. Real estate would come up, and I’d be ready with knowledge and insight.”
This unconventional approach, combined with her relentless work ethic, allowed Anna to turn small opportunities into monumental successes.
Lessons in Scarcity and Abundance
For many real estate professionals, managing the ups and downs of the market is a constant struggle.
Anna reflected on this reality: “You start with a scarcity mindset because you’re hustling to make ends meet. But as you grow, you realize the importance of abundance and letting go of clients who don’t align with your values.”
She emphasized the transformative power of real estate investing for agents, noting that passive income can provide stability during leaner times.
“Invest in what you sell—it’s the key to freedom and peace of mind,” she advised.
The Power of Authenticity in Luxury Real Estate
Anna’s work in the luxury market is a testament to the importance of authenticity.
“Luxury clients don’t want flash; they want expertise, discretion, and a relationship built on trust,” she explained.
Her down-to-earth approach has resonated with a diverse clientele, from high-net-worth individuals to everyday families.
Breaking stereotypes, Anna revealed: “My biggest sale, an $11 million home, came from a lease client. Treat every client like they’re your most important, and you’ll build relationships that open doors.”
This philosophy has allowed Anna to navigate the competitive world of luxury real estate with grace and effectiveness.
Letting Go to Grow
One of the most inspiring aspects of Anna’s journey is her evolving mindset around difficult clients. She candidly shared her struggles with scarcity and her reluctance to let go of challenging situations.
“Saying no was so hard for me, but it became my biggest growth lesson last year,” she admitted.
Learning to prioritize her well-being and focus on clients who valued her expertise allowed Anna to thrive professionally and personally.
Books That Changed the Game
Anna’s passion for growth extends beyond real estate.
She shared three books that have shaped her journey: Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity by Catherine Ponder, and Mel Robbins’ The Let Them Theory.
“These books taught me negotiation, gratitude, and the power of letting go,” she said, offering a glimpse into the mindset that fuels her success.
Build Your Life with Purpose
As the episode concluded, Mattias and Erica summed up the profound insights shared by Anna: “Invest in yourself, in your relationships, and in your craft. That’s how you build a life you love through real estate.”
Anna’s story is a masterclass in resilience, strategy, and authenticity.
Whether you’re starting your journey in real estate or looking to redefine your approach, her lessons remind us that success is built on a foundation of grit, humility, and a genuine desire to serve others.
From Hustle to Harmony
Anna’s journey highlights the power of transformation—turning obstacles into stepping stones and embracing every stage of growth with intention.
Her advice to aspiring agents?
“Stay curious, stay humble, and always show up prepared.”
The REI Agent Podcast continues to inspire listeners to dream bigger, work smarter, and live more authentically.
As Anna Oliver’s story reminds us, real estate isn’t just about transactions—it’s about creating a meaningful life for yourself and the people you serve.
Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on The REI Agent podcast, your go-to source for insights, inspiration, and strategies from top agents and investors who are living their best lives through real estate.
For more content and episodes, visit reiagent.com.
Contact Anna Oliver
Transcript
[Mattias]
Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Mattias, an agent and investor.
[Erica]
And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist.
[Mattias]
Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing.
[Erica]
Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors.
[Mattias]
Ready to level up?
[Erica]
Let’s do it.
[Mattias]
Welcome back to the REI Agent. It’s Mattias here. Before we get into our program, Anna Oliver out of Toronto, a top producing, really experienced, awesome person, agent with a niche in the luxury market.
We had a bit of a conversation before we even got on about working with difficult people. And unfortunately, in this business, that definitely happens. We get into that a little bit in the show and we talk about how I think often in real estate sales, there’s a big scarcity mindset and there’s a lot of competition.
You are fighting for survival. And that can be motivating. I mean, there can be something about, if you don’t do all these things, if you realize that, even if you get…
One of the things that happens with agents is that they get really busy in active sales, that they have buyers that are active and listings they have out. And they are forgetting to kind of nurture their database or to do the things, the prospecting, the things that will bring them the next month’s business. And so they’ll experience this boom of business and then they’ll have this low and then they’ll do the things that are needed, they get busy again, and then you kind of just look cyclical, up and down thing.
It kind of creates that scarcity mindset. And there’s all sorts of theories and ways of avoiding that. One being, spend the first half of your day on your business and then the next half of your day in your business, which work on your business as far as building new marketing things, systems, that kind of stuff, nurturing your sphere or whatever you do to prospect, and then go show houses, then go take listing appointments for the second half of the day.
That is one of the ways. I think another thing that one can do to make them at least not feel scarce is by having passive income coming in through rentals. But all to say, if you’re feeling abundant, there is definitely less of that kind of doggy dog mentality that you can be a little bit more relaxed about things.
And I think your clients will feel that and you may not have to get as stressed out about other agents and how they act. Or you can also say that I don’t wanna work with you person that seems like they’re gonna be very difficult to work with that you seem crazy. I don’t really wanna take this listing on.
Or yeah, you’re not my good fit as a buyer. And so I’m gonna refer you to somebody else. Those are all lessons I think that a lot of people wish they did sooner.
They have a period of growth where they realize they need to do this to just maintain their health and to work with people that wanna work with you, that you wanna work with. It’s just a happier sounding thing, right? But it’s a tough lesson and it’s something that’s hard for people to do.
So definitely encourage you to think through that, to start learning early signs about personality traits that might not suit your style and that you won’t have to be stressed out about working with that person. And again, that’s easier when you have a little bit more stability. And that’s why, again, here at the REI Agent, we think it’s a great idea to invest in real estate, the thing that you’re selling, as you go so that you are able to start covering some of your basic expenses and you’re not as stressed about cyclical things that can happen in real estate.
But also, I wanted to talk about working with difficult agents because sometimes you are needing to make an offer on a house that is listed by a difficult agent or they are coming and bringing the best offer for your listing and sometimes that’s unavoidable. I think that it is hard for a lot of people, it can be hard for me to not get into it, to not just take the higher road and not let them get under your skin. So I think sometimes people thrive off that.
I think they just want to rile you up and they may think they’re doing the best they can for their client by being a very difficult person to work with, but often they’re not. Often they’re hurting their clients. They’re hurting their clients in a lot of different ways.
I just had somebody amend a contract that negatively impacted their client because they just had to be difficult and wouldn’t work with the language that I thought was very fair to begin with. So that’s a whole nother story, not gonna get into it, but I just wanted to say, working with difficult people is something that is needed. You need to learn how to do it.
And I think once you kind of identify their patterns, kind of identify that they’re difficult, but let’s say, again, this is an agent that you have to work with, you can show up when you need to and then just not give them the fuel, not give them the firewood to keep their fire burning, that you just don’t engage in their stuff because at the end of the day, it’s not gonna do anything but kind of get you worked up and it’s gonna fuel them to do more of the stuff and it’s just gonna cyclically drive you crazy. So learning how to deal with difficult people I think is another very, very key skill that it doesn’t always come naturally at the beginning. Sometimes it just involves saying, no, I’m not gonna work with you.
You can go work with somebody else. I will refer you or not, I don’t even care. And sometimes it just means that you have to not engage in their level of behavior and you can represent your client’s best interest.
You can do the best you can for your client without having to get into a little fight over everything. So that’s my little two cents. We have a great conversation here with Anna Oliver.
Anna’s coming out of Toronto. She has a wealth of experience and she has a niche sort of in the luxury market where it’s just kind of been where she has found herself with some of the clients that she’s worked with and she’ll talk about that more so that will be more explained. But she has a lot of great perspectives and great suggestions about how to get started or strategies for getting started, especially if you don’t have even a network of people where you’re starting.
If you’re moving to a new city and you need to start from scratch, it’s possible and she talks about how to do that. So you won’t wanna miss this one. Without further ado, we got Anna Oliver.
Welcome back to the REI Agent. I have the honor here of having Anna Oliver. Thanks so much for joining us.
All the way from sunny Toronto.
[Anna Oliver]
Sunny and cold Toronto today.
[Mattias]
Yeah, it’s funny that I think coming out of just a little bit south of DC that normally I think our temperatures would probably be a bit different at this time of year but we’re only four degrees different today, we found out.
[Anna Oliver]
And on the wrong side too, on the cold side.
[Mattias]
Yeah, it’s been a cold front here. We had a two hour delay today and tomorrow actually, or they already called it because of the cold weather which is probably laughable for you. You’re probably more prepared for that.
[Anna Oliver]
We’re prepared but it doesn’t mean we like it. Canadians like to complain about the weather regardless.
[Mattias]
Cool, well thanks so much for being on here. You are a luxury real estate agent and I wanted to hear a little bit about what got you into that space, if that’s where you started. In your career or what got you into real estate in general?
[Anna Oliver]
So it’s actually a pretty good story. I come from a very long line of military. My mom and my dad were both Air Force Canadian.
My brother, my three sisters, all military. So you’d think that I would have joined the military or government or some form of public service. When I was a kid, I grew up at the Canadian version of West Point, so on a military academy campus.
And I really wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to be like the next maverick. I wanted to fly jets.
Unfortunately, I have a horrible sense of direction and I get very bad motion sickness. So my dream was crushed. And fast forward, when I graduated from university, my father still thought I should join the military but he wanted me to go army and go combat arm.
So he used to leave these messages for me on my voicemail. This is how old I am. So the old answering machine.
And it was like, Anna, the military, think about it. So he sent me this job description and it sounded perfect but he deleted the location part of it. And so my background was actually in sports administration and sports marketing.
And when I graduated, there wasn’t a lot of opportunity when it came for glamorous jobs. So he sends me this job description and I have a preferred degree, which is rare. So it was sports.
It was to work internationally. It paid well, but he deleted the location part. So I called my father.
I said, where is this? This sounds too good to be true. He’s like, well, it’s in Europe.
I said, okay, wonderful. So I was thinking like Olympics or soccer or something. The note is to work with the infantry in Bosnia.
It’s a six month contract. You’ll serve your country. And after that, you can do whatever you want.
So I shipped off with the Canadian infantry as a civilian and I was deployed in Bosnia-Herzegovina for six months.
[Mattias]
Not as glamorous as like Paris or?
[Anna Oliver]
Definitely not. So I don’t know about you, but when I think of Europe, I don’t think of Bosnia. And at that time, this was early 2000s.
This was after the war. And I tell you, when you go to a war-torn country, seeing the freedoms that we have in North America, it gives you a full appreciation of what we have. And it gives us an appreciation of the freedom, opportunity, our health, our family, everything, the basic needs.
And it also gave me an appreciation of what our men and women do in the service. And I knew that I did my time. I’m glad I did.
It was very difficult. That’s a whole other podcast. We could talk about that.
[Mattias]
I wanna get into it a little bit.
[Anna Oliver]
Yeah, and it was tough. It was tough. Like I was on a compound.
I was surrounded by landmines and barbed wire. And even my freedom was kind of taken away there just for safety and protection. So when I came back, I had two sisters that lived on the East Coast.
So think of Boston. So basically the Canadian version of Boston. I had some money in my pocket because it pays very well when you’re in scary places in the world.
And I always thought about real estate. So probably like a lot of our listeners today, real estate was not something that they, when they were little kids, that they dreamt to be or… So I looked into getting my real estate license.
And in this city, it was a three-week course, which if you think about it is kind of scary. So I took the course and I gave myself six months. So keep in mind, I’m not from the city.
I had no contacts, no friends. I didn’t know anything. Just figured I’d give it a shot.
And that’s how I got started in real estate in 2003.
[Mattias]
Wow, that’s a big jump. Yeah. And it’s nice that you had a little bit of a cushion to get you going, but that can probably go down pretty fast, right?
[Anna Oliver]
Well, it can because our market time and our sales time. So even if I got a client the first day, our market time is a lot longer here and our pay cycle is longer. So it could be six months to a year before you even get paid.
[Mattias]
Oh, really? Wait, write that down for me. I don’t understand.
[Anna Oliver]
So a lot of our offers are contingent and usually you have your market time. So I’ll bring out a listing, say like last week. And at that time, the market time for a listing in this city, in this province, was it almost six months to a year because it was a very slow market.
And then once you go through a contingency phase, sometimes that could take two or three weeks. And then our typical occupancy or closings were 60 to 90 days. So if you add that on.
So it’s a little bit different because when I hear properties in the U.S. so they get escrow and the quick closings, it’s just, it’s a little bit different here and it takes a little bit longer.
[Mattias]
Yeah, I think it definitely can depend on the market. I started with a slower market and we would have been more on the buyer side or a buyer’s market side of things. And we had longer, I don’t know if it would have been quite six months for most listings, but it took a little bit longer to sell.
And I personally am glad I got in at that time. I was wondering if you felt the same way. Like, I mean, you all probably had a boom over like COVID similar to us, I would assume.
[Anna Oliver]
Yes. Well, what I think is you learn the art of negotiation. You learn the art of client care in a slower market and the relationship.
So not only was it six months, six months, like it would be three months would be a quick sale. I had some listings for two, three years. Wow, yeah.
And then the negotiation. And then you learn the art of even dealing the camaraderie and the nuances with the other realtors, which you don’t learn in a heated market. So I think that it actually made me a better realtor.
[Mattias]
Yeah. And then also it’s, you can kind of weather when things go down again. Like if you’re starting when it’s really hot and then all of a sudden it’s not, and you like haven’t learned to, like you said, maintain relationships with people.
You haven’t learned like the best practices because you didn’t have time to breathe. You were learning and it was hot and insane. And the money’s coming in and- Yeah, you don’t feel like you need to, right?
It’s always gonna be there. There’s always gonna be people pounding at your door. But then when reality hits and things slow down and you need to find business, you just to reach out to people, you may feel that it is not a good fit for you and you’re not cut out for it, but you just learn at a different time.
[Anna Oliver]
And that’s what I find a bit challenging. So when I got into real estate in 2003, like think about this, this is the world before iPhones, before Blackberries, before any form of social media. So it was a lot of putting yourself out there.
I remember having flyers with my photo on it, newspaper ads and really the art of networking and that face-to-face. So when I first got my license, I went to a company that, and again, I didn’t know anybody in the city, didn’t even know real estate. So I showed up at the office at the brokerage.
Just like all of us, you don’t really know what to do. There’s no real sales training in the course. It’s all theory.
We never use those books ever again. And I remember going into my sales manager’s office and they gave me a headset, a mirror, and two stacks of paper. And they brought me over to what we call the bullpen.
And I remember that there were no chairs. So they set me up. They put the mirror on the front.
They gave me a headset. They plugged it into the phone. One was the script and the other stack was the names and names, addresses, and phone numbers to call.
And they said, here you go. And anybody who knows me, I hate cold calling. I don’t like, don’t like, but I was told that’s the only way you’d succeed is that boiler room sales, dial for dollars, always be closing aggressive.
So that’s how I learned. And funny story, because after 24 phone calls that day, I was pretty demoralized and I got to witness myself in the mirror. I actually got a listing.
[Mattias]
Oh, okay. So- That’s actually not a bad ratio, I would imagine, right? Like 24 to one?
[Anna Oliver]
You would think I love cold calling out of all the people in the world, but I definitely, I don’t like it.
[Mattias]
So- I don’t either.
[Anna Oliver]
I don’t. I still, like, even when I tell that story, I still remember my heart beating, but, and I still, and I talk about it. And, you know, and I think that’s the sad part of our industry.
You know, these people go in with, you know, they invest a lot of time, resources into the education, but then they don’t get the sales training. And they don’t align themselves with the right people, maybe. So at the brokerage, and they’re not getting that training.
And if your sales cycle or something happens with the market, then we’re losing a lot of good people, which I find unfortunate.
[Mattias]
You know, I heard somebody theorize that the reason the, we got a lot of attention in a lawsuit here in the US was maybe partly related to the spammy nature that some agents took, or the inside sales agents where somebody is like, you know, clicks on something by accident, and all of a sudden they’re getting a call every two minutes, like from-
[Anna Oliver]
Instantly, like it’s, you know, or the door knocking, or, and I think some of these reality TV shows or the unscripted TV, they painted us in a bad brush too, because when you see what the potential commission is splashed across the street, and they make it look so easy, but you and I both know, you know, the relationship with that client may have started two or three years ago.
And the days and the time that our, so people see flash, and usually for good TV, that they see arrogance, and they see, but they don’t see the hardworking people that are hardworking agents who are making things happen behind the scenes, like, you know. So that’s where I think the public gets a bad, and then they’re being bombarded by these agents calling them, and- Well, and it’s also, it’s also the expertise, I think.
[Mattias]
I think that, you know, one good thing that has come out of this is I feel like people can choose to decide that they are professionals. They are worth their fee. And I think that that’s something that, you know, before it was kind of like, oh, you don’t have to worry about it.
You know, like, it’s gonna be covered. And I don’t, forgive me if this is different in Canada, but the way that commissions work. But I think that it’s a good practice to start being able to explain why you’re- And you wouldn’t go to a lawyer, and you wouldn’t go to a doctor and say, you know, I wanna have, you know, five different heart surgeries, and whoever does the best job, I’ll pay.
You wouldn’t have them do initial work, and you don’t question paying, you know, a lot of money for a specialist. And again, that’s maybe more of a US thing, like with the heart surgeon, that is, because we have a crazy health system. But yeah, I think that that analogy sticks is that, you know, like I can save, I have saved my clients a lot of money through understanding from my experience, like this nuanced situation that we can kind of create a unique situation where, you know, they would have, on their own, maybe not gotten the deal, you know, maybe not, would’ve lost money.
[Anna Oliver]
Well, and you get what you pay for. I don’t know if you have a lot of the for sale by owner companies, and everyone’s- Like this kind of thing? Yeah, or like, yeah, like the calm free ones, or, you know, and again, like I’m all, I don’t wanna knock anyone ever for choosing those brokerages, but then, you know, like there’s some people that savings actually hurts them, because they, you know, I think the ad that I sent, I think I saw it in the US too, it’s like, oh, well, we saved $15,000 by selling our home on our own.
And, but really that $15,000 may have cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars, because if they had the right person, the right realtor behind them, with the right strategy coming out, maybe they could have made two or 300,000 more. So that’s where I feel that, you know, we bring a lot of value, but you always have that one consumer out there that penny pinches and who doesn’t want the service, and that’s fine. And there’s room for all of us out there, but.
[Mattias]
Well, I heard that described as well, that there’s kind of different types of people. There’s gonna be the people that want value, want, you know, and they were happy to pay for value. And then there’s gonna be a small demographic of people that just focus on the bottom line.
And they’re probably not the people you wanna work with anyway. And I’m not, and again, like, there are probably times where somebody is gonna sell it on their own and make a little bit more money or something without paying commission. But there are many times that they don’t.
And there’s a lot of that just comes down to, yeah, like you said, like we could help prep the house, make it more marketable, get professional marketing, and even just pricing. I mean, like I’ve seen people lose out because they think that like tax assessed value is market value or something like that. And it’s under.
[Anna Oliver]
And I don’t know about your market too. Like here it’s, there’s a big difference and there’s, it’s very cyclical here. And certain homes perform better at different times of the year.
So if you have a single family home, you wanna bring it out now because they’re based on the school schedule. And they wanna be settled. And, you know, we have March break and with Easter.
So sometimes the month of March is a complete write-off. Well, you’re not bringing out a property that month because none of the agents are here. So you have to have the right agent who understands, you know, like how it works in their marketplace.
And I’ve been lucky in that luxury market having known kind of the, how the market works at that particular time. And I’ve been able to help my clients make maybe four or 500,000 more than they ever thought, which is a very nice feeling because now we’ve set them up for maybe an early retirement or, you know, they can do more with it. So that to me is the most gratifying, but you need that expert kind of quarterback.
Yeah. You know, deciding when are we bringing it out or how are we gonna present this home? So that’s where the importance of the realtor is to me for like the benefit of the client.
And now with these new legislations coming in with buyers agents who have to explain and maybe justify, I think it will only elevate the profession, which I believe we have a lot of room and I think that’s a good thing.
[Mattias]
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that’s also the better perspective to take.
[Anna Oliver]
And get rid of the ones, like, you know, it’s evolution. You know, the best ones should be representing and the ones who can’t, then, you know, there’s other careers for them and I wish them well.
[Mattias]
Yeah, totally. Well, I wanna tiptoe in over to that luxury niche or niche, however you say it, and ask you a related question to that days on the market. I know that around here, often luxury homes can take a little bit longer to sell.
Do you see that as well?
[Anna Oliver]
Yes.
[Mattias]
What are your strategies when you are wanting to keep that relationship strong and set expectations and have your clients be happy with you and not wanna leave you if it doesn’t sell within the first, I don’t know what you put your listing agreements for, but if it’s six months, you know, how do you keep them happy and keep them wanting to work with you until it actually sells?
[Anna Oliver]
It’s a tough one. So to answer your first question, I did not start off in the luxury market. I actually started off, my first sale was $100,000 in a smaller town, East Coast.
So now, so I sold in Halifax, Nova Scotia for five years. Then I moved to Toronto where I am now. So I’ve been here since 2008.
And so very different market. So I actually, the joke is my least, my lowest sale ever was $1,200 and it was a mobile home, just outside of Halifax for $1,200. And my highest sale to date is 11 million.
So I’ve sold everything in between. And the common denominator out of all of this, and this is, you know, everybody thinks that the luxury market is something different. It’s not.
People are people. Houses are houses, homes are homes. And everybody at the end of the day wants somebody who can appreciate their individual needs.
It doesn’t matter if it was that $1,200 mini home, mobile home, or if it’s that $14 million listing. And it’s the same level. And I go into each, so, and I’m still active in every price point.
I don’t do the mobile homes anymore just because there aren’t any. But fundamentally, I think I really enjoy helping people. So if I feel like I’m the best fit for them, and I like them, and I feel like I can do the best job for them, it doesn’t matter the price point.
So when I started over in Toronto, which is a very competitive market, we have 75,000 realtors in my city alone. I came to Toronto and the recession hit, and I had no contacts here, and I had to start over. So I like challenges.
One thing, getting to know you over this podcast, I like challenges. And what I did is I worked very, very, very hard. And what I did is I looked at it almost like a game.
So having five years of sales experience in Halifax, I took that same approach here. Basically, homes are homes, people are people. I need to meet people, and I need to know homes.
So what I would do is I would play games. If I saw a house for sale, I would check on Realtor, and I would see how much it was listed for. I’d try to guess what it would sell for so I could understand the strategies.
I would book a showing to go in, and I still do this. To this day, if I have a listing coming out in a neighborhood, I go preview every home around there for the months leading up to the listing. And I treat it like a job.
I treat real estate, it gets four or five hours out of me every morning, if that’s analyzing the stats, looking at the homes, understanding who’s doing what in what neighborhood. And all that hard work paid off, and my biggest sale to date was 11 million, and that came through a lease. So we do a lot of rentals here.
I treated that rental like it was the most important client, the most important listing. He really liked what I did, and then referred me to a gentleman who bought an $11 million house out of the blue. Then he bought two $2 million condos within that same month, and I sold his $4 million home.
So I had a $20 million month.
[Mattias]
That’s insane.
[Anna Oliver]
And that was from a lease. That was from, it didn’t happen overnight, and it didn’t happen. So that was on the buy side.
So I guess the best advice I can give any realtor wanting to get into that space, all of that time that you’re putting in with other people, it pays off, and we should never discriminate on, oh, that home’s only, in my market, that’s only a $500,000 listing. It doesn’t matter because sometimes those people have parents or the contacts, and you have to treat each person as an opportunity for the longevity of the relationship, and it doesn’t cost you anything except for your time.
[Mattias]
No, absolutely, that makes a lot of sense, and I agree completely. It’s, yeah, it’s really, it becomes, it’s a building thing. It kind of, the snowball builds, and I think often, I mean, the easiest way to get into the business is if you have a big network in the market you’re working.
Tell me some more of what you did to build your business coming into the city without having a network.
[Anna Oliver]
You’re gonna laugh. So again, if I use the strategy, so I always looked at this. So in 2008, Facebook wasn’t really a thing, and I had a big black lab at the time, and what I did is I would walk different neighborhoods and walk the streets, and then I was at the dog park, and the dog park community is actually where I got some of my best clients.
Most of the life, and, but what I would do is real estate would come up, but I had enough knowledge so if it came up, and I always looked at it that if I ever had an opportunity and somebody wanted to speak about real estate, I knew what I was talking about, and I had a lot of time on my hands, too, and what I did, I went to a brokerage where there’s smoke, there’s fire, so I found very busy agents, and I said, you know what, I’ll work hard. I left my ego at the door, and I went on as a junior agent, and at that time, I’d already sold over 500 homes in my career.
I was averaging 100 deals a year when I left Halifax. And so when I came to Toronto, again, didn’t know anyone, didn’t know the city, I’m like, okay, how will I build off that base? So I looked at it that way, so I did all of my research and kind of intel on my own with my dog, got to know people face-to-face, and then I got the crumbs off the table from these busier agents.
[Mattias]
Yeah, I love it, I love it. I think that joining a tribe, getting connected into a tribe, which is, I think, what you did with the dog park thing, is such an awesome way to get connected. I like gyms.
That’s, I think, a really good way to get, especially if it’s like a group class kind of scenario. Right now, if anybody’s listened to this podcast before, they might have heard the word CrossFit come up, but that’s the curtain.
[Anna Oliver]
The community.
[Mattias]
What’s that?
[Anna Oliver]
It’s like the community. So you need to find a place. So like funny story, so when I was in Halifax, and again, I didn’t know anyone there, I signed up for a dance class.
[Mattias]
Yeah.
[Anna Oliver]
And the woman standing next to me were laughing because they were trying to teach us how to breakdance. And she looked at me, I looked at her, I said, do you feel stupid? And she’s like, yeah.
She’s like, you know, I’m going through a divorce, just wanted to get out of the house. And I said, well, I’m new to the city. And she’s like, do you know a good real estate agent?
You know us, as soon as we hear real estate, and I ended up listing her home. I listed their home. They both bought individually.
So three deals, then they got back together. So I had to sell those. So that was six, seven deals from that one dance class.
[Mattias]
Yeah. Yeah, that’s how it works.
[Anna Oliver]
It’s how it works. And really like what every agent, and I see a lot of new agents, what they do is they don’t take advantage of the resources of the older agents in their office. And a lot of older agents are very guarded and don’t want to share, but I really believe in the collaborative approach.
And the key, like the fundamental thing, you have to get out and meet people. If that’s going to a CrossFit or going to the dog park, people need to meet you, but you can’t just rely on that source, like that source for your income. Don’t rely on your friends or family because they’ll let you down and they’ll probably be your worst clients.
And then you have this whole new world of social media. And that’s where, and the other thing is like meeting other realtors, like young agents forget about the value of a referral. You know, we have like such opportunities.
There’s so many different ways to make money in real estate as a real estate agent. And you know, hey, now that you and I are friends, Mattias, like I’ll refer you to anyone moving to your neighborhood and podcasts and opportunities to show. So you have to look at, you know, your avenues to meet people.
You should always have about three or four of them. And that’s the way, and it doesn’t cost you anything. It’s the time.
So get out of the house, go meet people. And, you know, I know some agents who love door knocking. You will not catch me door knocking.
And you won’t catch me cold calling either. I don’t enjoy it. I don’t like it.
I would rather do anything. So I had to work extra hard to meet people face to face.
[Mattias]
And I think one of the things that we share is I like to provide value and not be just annoying. And so I think that you were doing that with the agents in your firm and they were, you know, in turn, you’re willing to work hard for them and whatever they needed. And in return, we’re willing to refer you business as well.
Sometimes you might be showing one of their listings for them because somebody reached out to them and then that becomes a deal. So I think that is definitely a great strategy to, if you’re getting started, is to try to find that agent. And I mean, shoot, if you can get an assistant job.
[Anna Oliver]
Yes, a receptionist job.
[Mattias]
Yeah, that lets you still have some flexibility to work and sell, like it’s kind of a perfect opportunity. I do wanna get more a little bit into, you said that you’re not only luxury, but you do have that luxury niche as well that you have some focus into. Can you sell us on the power of a niche in general and then also talk to us about how the luxury niche looks for you?
[Anna Oliver]
So the importance of the niche, so in terms of, I’m probably not the best one to answer that because my niche is basically, I work with people I like and I’m very big on the referral base. And it just so happens that some of them work in that space. So a lot of my clients, I look at my database and I look at my clients over the last few years.
They’re usually high transactional people. And I used to do a lot with military. So I always try to find people who are moving.
So I don’t, so I’d focus my effort and my energy on people who were moving and relocating and military government workers. So that was where I started. And where I live now, we don’t have a very large military base, but I’ve worked with a lot of people who are downsizing.
So I went after, and I target a lot of my efforts to people probably our age who are making decisions for their parents and their grandparents. And because I always look at the opportunity for the listing. And usually when you’re downsizing, the house is paid for.
Their realtor is probably no longer with us or retired. And then you have their kids that you’re helping. So that’s where I niche down on the type of personality versus the home, if that makes sense.
[Mattias]
Okay. Yeah, no, totally.
[Anna Oliver]
And so when I look at one, it’s, okay, well, they’re downsizing from that condo and our average price in my market’s about 1.5 to 2 million. And they’re downsizing. And then now I have the parents, then I have the kids and then I have their network.
So I look at everything very strategically that way, like without being an ambulance chaser, without being at the funeral home or anything, but I really niche down on that market. And it’s people like, and that’s where I really enjoy helping because my parents are older and I like helping people with a compassionate patient way. And they appreciate service.
And I really, really like offering that. So that’s very much my niche. And it happens to be that some of those worked out to be a luxury.
[Mattias]
Okay, that makes sense. And I was gonna say too, that once you kind of are established in that kind of demographic, that kind of market, you probably understand then those listings better than others that would be focused on other things. So that helps as well.
[Anna Oliver]
Well, it does. And I think too, where the misconception is, a lot of younger agents or agents who wanna get into that luxury space, they feel like they have to be, they have to drive the flashy car, they have to have the flashy outfits. That may have worked a few years ago, but people want authenticity, people want honest, they want expertise, they want advice, they want consistency.
And the flash to me is almost a deterrent now.
[Mattias]
Yeah, I agree. I 100% agree. I was fortunate when I started, the person that gave me the referrals that I helped as much as I could and mentored me drove a beat up old Honda Accord that was like, I think 20 years old and they had like a local technical shop, like paint rust off of it or something.
It was just like, it was, yeah, it was perfect. And again, we have a bit of a different market here. We’re a tertiary market.
So we don’t have that element near as much, but I think there’s the fact that it’s, I think a little bit off-putting. I think having that kind of, look at me kind of mentality is not the service that I would want. On top of that, it’s a lifestyle creep.
I mean, now you’re like having to maintain this Porsche lease or whatever you did to keep up this image. And you’re just like almost guaranteeing you’re gonna fail if things slow down at all. Like you have more expenses now and it’s just, yeah, you’re setting yourself up for failure.
[Anna Oliver]
And the other big thing too, is I’ve noticed with some of my lecturers, like I’ve had celebrity, like I’ve worked with a lot of athletes. I’ve worked with some recording artists. I’ve worked with like high net worth people.
They really value their privacy. I’m under a lot of non-disclosure agreements with a lot of my clients.
[Mattias]
When I said this question, I was gonna be who?
[Anna Oliver]
Yeah, I wish I could tell, but no, and they really value. So they, and what’s interesting too, is that they value their privacy so much that if you are that flashy person, they won’t gravitate. And some of my clients, you would never even know how wealthy they were, because they’re the most down to earth, very understated.
And that goes a long way. So it’s a very fine line. Like, you know, there’s always that person who might want the flash and all that.
That’s just not my brand. My brand is the hardworking, you know, get it together, get all the details, the strategy, everything from the listing. And then I’m very big on the client care and the relationship building with them.
So with our luxury homes, like some of them, you know, I wish there was a crystal ball that we could predict that, you know, a luxury home, you know, does it sell on day one or does it sell on day 365? Because we never know when we bring a listing out if that’s the day someone decided to buy that house. And sometimes that happens on day one, like, or like that $11 million home, he and his wife were debating renovating.
They drove past this home. I got a text message, Anna, can you show us this house? And they put an offer in that day.
Well, it had been on the market for over a year and the agents thought I was crazy. And I’m like, no, I was actually funny enough. It was one of the easiest deals I’ve ever done.
[Mattias]
It’s funny how that can work. Or, you know, I was part of one of the biggest sales in our area and that one had been on the market for years, multiple agents. And then of course, when it actually sold, there was multiple parties interested in making offers.
And like, how does that happen?
[Anna Oliver]
Well, and we see it all the time. It’s like, if you want it, I want it more.
[Mattias]
Yeah, exactly.
[Anna Oliver]
And then it comes, you just need that one person to come out. But no, to get back to your, this is my long-winded answer. It can be a very long time.
And most of the sellers here understand that. Like, they know that they have a unique product, that the market shifted. Unfortunately, those are sometimes tough conversations if they bought at the peak.
Or they’ve over-improved their home and they’ve made it so customized that you only have one buyer who wants that house.
[Mattias]
I’m sure that comes up a lot in luxury. Like, I see that a lot where I put, I bought it for $250,000. Our numbers are a little different here.
[Anna Oliver]
But homes are, but we get it, right?
[Mattias]
Like, it’s- And I put $100,000 into it. It’s worth 350. And that’s not actually our median sales price or anything.
But yeah, like, it doesn’t work that way. The math doesn’t work. It’s where the buyer is willing to pay for it and where the comp’s showing.
So like, that is a hard conversation. I can see, especially with luxury, because people can put some money into homes, for sure.
[Anna Oliver]
Well, look at, it took, what, Michael Jordan 13 years to sell his home.
[Mattias]
Yeah, that’s right. I forgot about that.
[Anna Oliver]
I don’t know, how many ages did he go through?
[Mattias]
Like, that’s- Yeah, I bet he’s not a good, he’s probably not an easy client to work with.
[Anna Oliver]
I bet you there were some bets and some gambling and everything. I’d like to know what the over-under for that one was. But the other thing with, like, the improvements and the customization, people, everyone thinks they have good taste.
And, you know, sometimes it’s difficult. But, you know, like, in terms of the luxury space, like this past year, I was lucky. Some of my bigger sales were three to four million and they sold within days.
But that was a lot of strategy behind. But at the same time, I’m nervous because I don’t know if it’s going to be the home that the buyers want. Is it, are there other homes coming out at the same time that will compete with ours?
Because we don’t know what other agents are doing. And it can be very stressful, but I was very lucky. I broke a few records this year and I’m very proud of it.
But at the same time, I had to set the expectations with the sellers. Like, you know, we just don’t know how this is going to land. And it always comes down to price.
It’s always price. So if I didn’t price it properly, like the market will dictate. And in our market, it dictates very quickly.
So within a week or so, I know if it’s like, usually if it’s 15 showings and I’m not getting an offer, I know it’s price. Because buyers will offer when they’re excited about something, they’ll overlook the customization or the over-improvements for the right price. And if we’re not getting offers, then I know.
And luckily, because I do so much research before I bring out a home, that I know roughly what it is. And sometimes I’ll bring the seller with me to go look at the other homes to compete with. And it’s like, okay, now that you’ve seen this home, now that you’ve seen your home, how does it compare?
Like, I basically kidnap them.
[Mattias]
But. No, that’s a great strategy. I mean, I think that works.
[Anna Oliver]
It works. It’s the choice. And nobody could ever dispute that I didn’t work hard for them.
[Mattias]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s ultimately like a great way of retaining.
It’s working really hard and being personable and providing a lot of value. Do you do much to get properties ready for the market? I think I saw that you have like staging services and that kind of thing.
Do you do much as far as like renovations go? Like, I mean, painting, kitchen renovations, new backsplash, new granite countertops, or tell me a little bit about that. I’m curious if in that level of market, if you have to put a lot of money in to get it market ready to get the most out of the sales.
[Anna Oliver]
It depends. And if I am offering those types of service, I add it to my fee. So I basically, I come up with like an a la carte.
You know, there’s some people I know, you know, times are tough and they can’t afford to get it painted and they can’t afford. So what I’ll do is I’ll up front the costs at the beginning and then I’ll get compensated for it after in like in those situations. If I’m competing and I really want the listing, I might offer to do it, but it has to make sense, like if they’re buying or they’re good people.
But the crew that I have, like contractors and workers and stuff, like we will offer that sometimes just to help them because, you know, like, and that’s the way I know if they trust me and I know what will work to sell, it’s worth it. But I also, I try not to get into the painting and the home repairs for liability issues. I’m not there to renovate their home, but I am there to present it in the best possible way.
So there’s some videos of me, like, you know, shoveling the snow before the photography. There’s me mowing the lawn to get it ready or power washing before the photo shoot. So I try not to advertise that too much.
[Mattias]
Yeah.
[Anna Oliver]
But I’m very big on social media. I’m very big on the videos. One of our, like we won two BAM awards this year for one of our property videos.
So if you look that up, my partner, Matt Leonetti, who is known to be kind of the funny guy, but he’s a creative genius. So some of our high profile listings, we’ve done like basically movies for the properties and not like the lifestyle where we’re in it. We’ve hired actors.
So if you look at Benny from, yeah, we won. Do you follow BAM?
[Mattias]
I don’t think so, no.
[Anna Oliver]
It’s actually American. So it’s a great resource for all marketing and like different trends for real estate agents.
[Mattias]
I’ll check it out.
[Anna Oliver]
Yeah. So, and then Ryan Serhant and my partner have kind of collaborated on a few things too. So we try to bring a creative approach to a lot of our homes too.
So like this one, yeah. And it’s a lot of fun too, especially. So my partner, Matt, he’s a genius in terms of like the storyboarding and how to present the home and tailoring it to who the buyer is.
And yeah, so you have to check out our Instagram, his Instagram and my Instagram to see some of these videos. We’re very proud of them.
[Mattias]
Yeah, that sounds amazing. Yeah, and yeah.
[Anna Oliver]
But they cost a lot.
[Mattias]
Yeah. Yeah, that’s definitely one of the balances. And I mean, obviously while you have maybe higher listing prices, it also is always the risk of it not selling.
And that happened to me last year. And it didn’t sell, then they move on or?
[Anna Oliver]
It was, you know, it still happens to the best of us. I’m 22 years in and I put $35,000 into this condo and upfront staging, everything, videos, but we’re overpriced. They bought at the peak and the market was speaking.
And at the time they wanted to test it. There was nothing else kind of on the market comparable in square footage or in that building. And then we actually were on the market for seven months, six other places came on the market and sold around us and he wouldn’t budge on price.
And the whole thing was, I said, buyers are not excited about your condo at this price. And we parted ways. I do not get that money back and he’s relisting with another agent.
I heard for pretty close to where he wasn’t willing to budge which makes me feel better. But getting back to what I said earlier, it’s always price. If you’re getting 40 plus showings and no offers, it’s your price.
[Mattias]
Yeah, I often tell people that, you know, we have kind of three levers that we can control, price, condition and marketing.
[Anna Oliver]
Absolutely.
[Mattias]
And if you feel like I need to do a better job with marketing, let’s explore that.
[Anna Oliver]
It’s a great way to ask.
[Mattias]
If we have, if we have, you know, any kind of reoccurring feedback about condition, you know, we can look into that. But yeah, usually it boils down to they’re not feeling it with what your price is. There’s, if you list a house for a dollar, it would sell immediately, multiple offers.
Whereas if you listed a house for, you know, a million dollars more than it’s worth, it might sell eventually, but it might take a couple of decades, you know?
[Anna Oliver]
And you’re chasing the market down.
[Mattias]
Yeah.
[Anna Oliver]
And it’s, and I think too, like any advice for newer agents, so the mentor that I first started with, her goal was always to have large market share. So we used to always carry, you know, almost a hundred listings because we had a team of buyers, agents that worked for us. So my training for the first part of my career was never to lose a listing.
You know, you take it, even if it’s overpriced, you’re going to try to get the price reduction because my job was to get inventory for this team. And the second thing is never lose it over commission because if you work hard, you’ll be able to pick up from that. So I have that kind of ingrained that I don’t turn down a lot of business and I’m very competitive.
And I like, I always think that, you know, they’ll eventually listen to me and we’ll get it sold, so.
[Mattias]
Yeah, well, let’s shift that here to wrap things up. Let’s shift it over to letting go that difficult client and how that is something I think everybody struggles with and maybe some people have mastered, but I think it’s always like you have that growth period that you like start to realize that it’s worth it. Yeah, it never stops.
[Anna Oliver]
It never, so the letting go part, like I have some friends, like you have to understand like where I come from. I’m on my own, so I’m single. I’ve never had the benefit of a spouse with an income.
I run a business on my own and like sometimes it takes three to six months to get paid and you’re living off lines of credit. So I definitely come from more of a scarcity mentality and I have to take. I think that’s what made me good, but that’s also what made me very stressed and not have a vacation for 20 years because I was always afraid the tap would turn off.
And so saying no is very difficult for me. This past year, I made a conscious decision, but not to over invest in the ones that I don’t think are going to listen. So if it’s a matter of maybe investing in virtual staging because the prices, they wanna test the market, that’s fine, we’ll virtual stage it instead of physical.
That’s a fraction of the cost. And then after a while, I just have the conversation and I kind of joke, I’m like, I think we’re breaking up. It’s not you, it’s not me, it’s the market.
I’ve done everything I’ve can. I’ve given you kind of the options here, but I think it’s best that we part ways. And most of them, and it’s funny, when you take a step back and you detach yourself, they wanna work with you even more.
[Mattias]
That’s interesting, the fear of loss there.
[Anna Oliver]
Fear of loss and I still have it. And again, I think that’s what makes me hustle and work hard, but letting go of some of these tough ones last year, I think that out of everything, that was one of my biggest growth learning experiences was letting go.
[Mattias]
I agree, I think it definitely, the scarcity mindset can help in the hustle. And I will say that it, I’m trying to think of the best way to say this. But I think that sometimes we have too much scarcity mindset with other realtors.
And I think that we often are too competitive and too cutthroat. And I’m in a very fortunate market that we’re not as cutthroat as I imagine bigger cities are like Toronto. But I think that if you can elevate past it, if you can really get to a more abundant mindset, it’s gonna just be a weight off your shoulders, and we talked about off air, about how we were all about having agents invest in real estate and started to get that passive income to grow, invest in that rental before you invest in that Porsche.
[Anna Oliver]
Yes.
[Mattias]
So that you can have that Porsche and not worry about it later.
[Anna Oliver]
Well, and invest in yourself too. I always think the investment in yourself, not over leveraging. At the end of the day, people don’t care what car you have.
And I think some of the agents who started, they see the flash of these TV shows and they think, that’s what I need. Or a big production, brag reel video, which really people don’t care. And I know some young agents who invested 15, $20,000 into these big photo shoots and movies.
And I said, if you would have just put that money into your investment or a down payment for that property, then you’d be better off. You could sleep at night. Now you’re in the hole.
So I think people should have more open conversations like this, especially about the industry.
[Mattias]
Yeah, it’s good to hear. I think that you’re absolutely right. I mean, I think people at the end of the day, they care about what they want.
And it’s not about like, oh, wow, look at that flashy person. That’s really cool.
[Anna Oliver]
Oh, she must be doing well.
[Mattias]
Yeah, and I mean, there might be some of that, but it might work to a certain degree. But I think at the end of the day, they really care about themselves. I mean, nobody’s thinking about you.
They’re thinking about what they want.
[Anna Oliver]
No, and then that’s why you have to think about yourself. And that’s where, like in the past year, I took a very, very, like, I still love what I do. I love helping people.
Like I’ll probably be one of those old women that you see still in the business at 80 years old. But for me, it’s the people. And, but I also had to take time.
Like I really made a conscious effort to have a hobby. So I got into golf and making that time for myself. And that was the investment in myself.
And then, you know, we’re not saving lives. And you can refer, like, they just want to know that they can reach you. And now they can, but I think the taking that time away, because obviously I was getting some kind of hit or some kind of adrenaline high off of always being needed.
And that’s a whole other podcast too. But it’s taking that time for yourself is important to avoid the burnout and being the best for those wonderful people that you’re working with. That’s the key.
[Mattias]
Yeah, and, you know, when you have the freedom to, and have the abundance to, you know, work with people you want to work with and get good at figuring that out, because that’s also hard.
[Anna Oliver]
It takes a while.
[Mattias]
But yeah, like understanding that, you know, you really like this type of client and you’re going to work with them and the rest, you know, they will make you money, but you can get a referral fee instead.
[Anna Oliver]
Absolutely, and that’s like, like I really like helping seniors and families. Like that’s my, like, I love it. Like I love helping all people, but that’s really where, you know, I like having those three, four hour listening appointments.
Obviously I can talk your ear off, so you can imagine I enjoy those.
[Mattias]
Well, I do want to get into the favorite book part of the show. Have you had a fundamental book that you think everybody should read, or are you currently reading a book that you think is really good?
[Anna Oliver]
So I have three books actually that I would recommend. One is Never Split the Difference. Never Split the Difference, Chris Voss.
[Mattias]
Yep, that’s great.
[Anna Oliver]
The other one that I listened to, I probably listened to, because I’m in the car a lot, is Catherine Condor, The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity.
[Mattias]
Okay, don’t know that one.
[Anna Oliver]
That’s an old school. It’s very much on, you know, giving thanks and gratitude and appreciation. It might be a little religious for a few people, but it’s a non-denominational Christian belief.
I love it. That book changed my life. And I believe Catherine Condor is 102 years old.
And even if you don’t like the religion aspect of it, which isn’t that much of it, it’s fundamental. And really it’s about the art of forgiveness, the art of appreciation, and really, really like abundance. And there’s always more.
And then the other book that I really like right now is Mel Robbins’ The Let Them Theory, which is, yeah, so I highly recommend that. It’s basically like letting go, like not taking things so personally and just letting it go. Like let them.
You didn’t get invited to that dinner, we’ll let them leave. Yeah.
[Mattias]
Somebody was just talking about that one. Yeah, that sounds really good. I like that.
I like that theory. And I had a different way of describing that moment in my career where I basically had to start letting go of things and not taking it so personally. And it wasn’t as poetic as that.
So I’m just gonna leave it at that.
[Anna Oliver]
Well, trust me, I had one, I just, I did a video on it and it was like gut-wrenching. Like a client that I thought we had a great relationship with, I was getting the house ready, I had the coming soon sign on the lawn, and I drove past and he ripped my sign out and listed it with someone else and I didn’t see it coming. And it took me down to the knees, basically, for about three days after.
Didn’t see it coming. And it still happens.
[Mattias]
It’s really personal, yeah.
[Anna Oliver]
It worked. Well, a special one’s two million, too.
[Mattias]
Yeah. Yeah, no, no, totally. And then if it’s somebody that kind of irks you that gets the listing, you’re like, well, that’s very serious.
[Anna Oliver]
But it makes you kind of happy when it doesn’t sell, too. See, the art of forgiveness. See, this is a new chapter.
[Mattias]
We’re still working on it.
[Anna Oliver]
And in terms of sales training, I highly recommend Jeremy Minor, NEPQ of the seventh level. So that is, if you like Chris Voss, Jeremy Minor, NEPQ is phenomenal. And that was a big game changer for me in my career, too.
[Mattias]
Okay, cool. Well, thanks for all the great advice. If people are interested in knowing more about you, seeing these cool videos you’re talking about, maybe wanting to buy a $11 million house in Toronto, where can they reach out to you?
[Anna Oliver]
Best way, so my website is annaoliver.ca. So my first and my last name. And then Instagram, I’m @TheAnnaOliver.
[Mattias]
Okay.
[Anna Oliver]
And I’m with Real Brokers. So if you want to do old school Google, Anna Oliver Real. And those are probably the best ways.
[Mattias]
Okay, cool. Hey, well, thanks so much, Anna, for being on the show. It’s been a great conversation.
[Anna Oliver]
It’s been a true pleasure. Thanks for having me.
[Erica]
Thanks for listening to the REI Agent.
[Mattias]
If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week.
[Erica]
Visit REIAgent.com for more content.
[Mattias]
Until next time, keep building the life you want.
[Erica]
All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.
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